Cardinal Ratzinger: We Have Not Published the Whole Third Secret of Fatima

If you scroll back through this particular thread, you will clearly see that I do not contest the notion that there is more to the third part of the secret than what we were given.

What I do contest is the notion that the Vatican is hiding the information.

 

How long was it hidden that there were two envelopes?

 

Which envelopes are being mentioned here?

 

I best send you here Kevin....http://www.fatima.org/exclusives/pdf/ssh_epiloguepg3.pdf

 

Mac, there's no need to send me to Ferrara's materials. I am well acquainted with them. I want to hear from you and your own mind.

 

Ok.

The same way the Vatican hid pedophile priests or hid sons of Popes in history. These very Cardinals have women and they hide it too etc. There were very unfair decisions throughout history by Vatican authorities. They put saints in silence, they persecuted innocent people etc.

But in my opinion it is much more simple. We are leading with private revelation. The church is not not obliged to do anything with it. It is not obliged to reveal it complete or incomplete. The church could never open Fatima. If the Church shows the vision of the secret, even existing the significado, and they say that the publication is finished or completed, it is alright. And they are not lying, because these words also have the meaning that they published what it should publish.

 

What you need to prove is when Sr. Lucia received Heaven's permission to write down the significado. So far, this has not been done.

 

You proposed a hypothesis. It is plausible, It is possible. I give another: it is possible that could be earlier too. It is possible. Later or earlier.

Nobody can prove scientifically that kind of supposition. But everybody can see that is reasonable and acceptable. And here we have to look to all evidences around the third secret and If somebody agree that could be something more, so we reach to where is possible to reach. We have a reasonable certainty that there is something more.

That's all. More than that you have to enter Ratzinger's mind, which is impossible.

 

View attachment 5153 View attachment 5154

Do you know why the Cappovilla envelope was not produced on the Porta Porta show?
We were shown 5 envelopes but not that one.

And I am also wondering why we have two envelopes with the 1960 instruction.
Envelope #4 and #5.

How many envelopes do you think is necessary to deliver one page?

And here is a query ,from my own mind... If you fold a page of writing over into four pieces , put it in an envelope,and hold it up to a light , ... can you read how many lines are written?

 

The envelope case lead to more evidences that have much something more.

 

I would like someone to write an article JUST about the envelopes!! I get totally confused when I try to follow all that has been written on the subject!

 

What disappoints me in this matter are the disagreements that have emerged within the group of people interested in this topic and who definitely seem to be looking for the truth (as opposed to hiding it!)

It was Kevin's involvement in this forum that made me aware of the book from the Cumbria Convent of Sister Lucia which was, as he says, "truly a revelation":

This was truly a revelation because for years it was debated whether or not there were words of Our Lady that explained the vision (which was published in the year 2000). Having the confirmation in Sr. Lúcia’s own handwriting that an interpretation did, in fact, exist—but which was not intended by Our Lady in 1944 for public consumption—was as valuable as it was remarkable. As remarkable as it is, the effort from two-text theorists has been rejuvenated.​

I'm going to post here again the relevant text from the book but copied from Chrstopher Ferrara's website, simply because Kevin doesn't seem to have posted his translation in this way in his own website.

At around 4 p.m. on January 3, 1944, in the chapel of the convent, before the Tabernacle, Lucia asked Jesus to make known His will: “I then felt a friendly hand, maternal and affectionate, touch my shoulder.” And the Mother of God said to her: “Be at peace, and write what I have commanded you, but not, however, that which has been given to you to understand its meaning,” intending to allude to the meaning of the vision which the Virgin herself had revealed.

Immediately afterward, said Sister Lucia, “I felt my spirit inundated by a mystery of light that is God and in Him I saw and heard: the point of a lance like a flame that is detached, touches the axis of the earth, and it trembles: mountains, cities, towns and villages with their inhabitants are buried. The sea, the rivers, the clouds, exceed their boundaries, inundating and dragging with them, in a vortex, houses and people in a number that cannot be counted. It is the purification of the world from the sin in which it is immersed. Hatred, ambition, provoke the destructive war. After I felt my racing heart, in my spirit a soft voice said: ‘In time, one faith, one baptism, one Church, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic. In eternity, Heaven!’ This word ‘Heaven’ filled my heart with peace and happiness in such a way that, almost without being aware of it, I kept repeating to myself for a long time: Heaven, Heaven.”
​

For me the differing translations of a sentence from the above is only important if one is trying to argue of a cover up (or not) in the publication of the new book. I think it very unlikely there has been any intentional cover up.
The crucially important bit is the confirmation, virtually from Our Lady Herself, that the third secret involves a vision and an interpretation of that vision.

Kevin believes we have to prove that Our Lady, at some stage, gave permission to Sister Lucia to write down the interpretation. I see no such need. We certainly can believe that Sister Lucia was given that permission, or that she was not. It's fundamentally a matter of opinion. I find the revelations from Fr Dollinger strongly support the likelihood of the interpretation being written down at some stage.

 

Thank you for specifying. So you are talking about the envelope within the envelope with Sr. Lucia's handwriting. Good, now that we are clear, we can proceed.

1) I do not know why the "Capovilla Envelope" was not produced on the Porta a Porta program. The grace of being able to speak to H.E., Cardinal Bertone, has not been afforded me. If you would, say a prayer or two for this intention and let us see what comes of it. In the meantime, this is an open question, one to which I have no answer.

2) It is an established fact that Sr. Lucia was very cautious about discussing her extraordinary experiences. She was, also, very careful about how she communicated them. Take, for example, how she would not entrust the envelope containing the third part of the secret to the post office. She waited 5 or so months to hand it over--and only to a Bishop--to its recipient, Bishop da Silva.

3) You ask a very good question about the folding of the paper. I hear a lot about this "25 lines of text" nonsense. Your question may be helpful to arrive at an answer.

 

One alleged message from our Lord makes this point on the 3rd secret related to Vatican II quite clear. Following is that message. www.godspeakswillyoulisten.org

09/04/07 P.M.
This is a message to clear up your confusion regarding the 3rd Secret of Fatima and the Second Vatican Council. This is an area causing division, fighting, and schism in my church. Sister Lucy had stated: The 3rd Secret of Fatima was to be released by 1960. Many traditionalist Catholics interpret this to mean the 3rd Secret is about the Second Vatican Council.This is a deception given by the Father of Lies – Satan. My Blessed Mother has revealed the essence of the 3rd Secret of Fatima through other apparitions. It deals with apostasy and loss of faith in the Catholic Church amongst other issues. These facts have been substantiated by priests and cardinals in my church. Even at Akita, Japan, my Blessed Mother warned of apostasy and cardinals, bishops, and priests fighting against each other. Division is not from God, but from Satan. A council, called by the Holy Father and attended by the Bishops of the World, is not satanic. It was called by my Holy Spirit. Do my people think they know better than my spirit? My vicar is the head of my church and is led by my Holy Spirit. Read Ecclesiasticus 3:22. Seek not the things that are too high for thee and search not into things above thy ability, but the things which God hath commanded thee, think on them always and in many of his words be not curious. My people need to follow these words. Stop trying to be the Pope and tell him how to lead my church. You have not been given the mission to be Pope. If you cause rebellion, schism, and rebellion against my true Popes, you are in rebellion against myself, Jesus Christ. The things which God has commanded thee are to be in obedience to His church, and to obey His church’s teachings and commandments. In my church, many voices not of me, are seeking your attention. These voices can be from priests, bishops, religious, and laymen. Any voice, which leads you to schism against my son the Pope, do not listen to them. These voices are led by their own pride, and influenced by the father of lies – Satan. For Satan knows if he can cause division in my church, many souls will be lost forever to hell.

As you have read, for many years Masonic and communistic forces have tried to destroy my church. Recently, in your news, masons in Mexico and Italy are openly trying to persecute my church. In your country, the 1960’s brought in a culture of sin and relativism. This brought about a rejection of God and his commandments. This is the lie and the deception, which has caused the problems in your world and my church. It is the cry of Satan: I will not serve.

You cannot blame the Second Vatican Council for the increase in the sins of the flesh: homosexuality, abortion, murder, and all the sins of you rage. You cannot blame the Second Vatican Council for the decrease invocations, lack of reverence and attendance at the Holy Mass. The blame is my people compromising with the world, rebelling against the Holy Father, and believing the lies, deception, and the words of Satan. The problems of today had their beginnings many years prior to the 1960’s.This decade brought the problems into the open. Masonry, in all its diabolical forms, infiltrated my church many years prior to the Second Vatican Council. During those turbulent years, masons were elevated to positions of authority in my church. Those Masonic forces were unleashed from the pit of hell and caused the problems in your world today. My people, rejection of God establishes the reign of Satan in your midst. Read my word. All of these events were prophesied and are being fulfilled before your eyes. My word must be fulfilled. Satan is clever. He is much more intelligent than you. He is using Vatican II as a deceptive lie to hide the real cause for the division in my church.

The real cause for the division is the pride of mankind, the rejection of God, and many in my church making compromises with Satan. He knows if the real truth was revealed, the church would be unified, and he would be defeated. This present and continuing purification is exposing the lies and deception of Satan. My church will be as I want it: humble, persecuted, and a light to the world. It will once again follow in my footsteps to Calvary, and to a glorious resurrection. To repeat, the Second Vatican Council is not the cause of the problems in my church. The cause is the pride of my people who compromise with the demon. Those who cause division and schism in my church do not listen or follow them. For heresy can occur from many different directions. Those who deny my church’s teachings,whether labeled liberals or traditionalists, are promoting heresy. Pray for these souls. My people, The Holy Father is correcting these errors. If you would follow his guidance, you will not fall into schism and division. He has clearly defined the substance of the Holy Mass and the true meaning of my church. Continue fighting the Holy Father and you are fighting against God. The day will come when a false antipope will try and lead my church. If you are in a state of rebellion against my church now, will you even recognize a false pope? Remember, my sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me. Can you hear my voice if you are in rebellion, causing division in my church? You cannot if your pride is a stumbling block in your life to my graces. Repent of your sins and implore my mercy. These words apply to bishops, priests, religious, and laypeople. No one is excluded. You are either with me or against me. You cannot be a servant in my kingdom and the kingdom of Satan with your pride at the same time. Repent today. Tomorrow will be too late.Judgment is already beginning in the house of God, and expanding to the ungodly. Do not sit on the fence any longer. You want my blessing. Be submissive to my church and its teaching, and I will bless you. If you refuse to listen to my warnings, you could be deceived and spend eternity in hell. Hell is filled with bishops, priests, and religious who refused to be obedient to my church. For my word proclaims, I Kings 15:22b-23a. For obedience is better than sacrifices: and to hearken rather than to offer the fat of rams. Because it is like the sin of witchcraft, to rebel: and like the crime of idolatry, to refuse to obey. Read Apocalypse 22:15. Without are dogs and sorcerers and unchaste and murderers and servers of idols and every one that loveth and maketh a lie. You cannot enter my kingdom with these sins on your soul. Without true repentance, you will spend eternity in hell. My people do not give into the lies and deception of Satan.Focus on myself, Jesus Christ only, and let me lead you into the era of peace and life everlasting. These are the words of the Lord

 

I have not provided that text on my web site because there has been no need to provide the entirety of it. What is in dispute is the one phrase from Our Lady.

I can guarantee you, as far as I know, there was no deliberate cover-up on the part of the World Apostolate of Fatima. I know exactly how that text came to be mistranslated. Respectfully, Ferrara was just wrong in his characterization of the matter. He shot first and asked questions later.

I am sorry that you do not "see the need" for the permission.

 

I think that this alleged revelation must be rejected. If for nothing it, it has questionable content.

If Freemasons were appointed to positions of authority in the Church, yet we are supposed to be submissive to the Church (represented by those in authority)....Well, I think you can see where this is going.

 

But what is not to be "rejected" Mr Symonds is the Warning phrophesized at Garabandal. If One rejects God and does repent of their sins after that-risks doing so at their own peril for enternity! Peace be with you!

 

Without wishing to get into the accuracy or otherwise of the "25 lines of text" matter, closely associated with it is the evidence for the secret being confined to a single sheet of paper. There seems to be quite a bit of evidence supporting this. I copy a section from an 'Inside the Vatican' article of 5 or 6 years ago:

The text of the Third Secret released by the Vatican is handwritten on four sheets of paper. Multiple clerics claiming familiarity with the authentic text have stated that the Third Secret was written on a single sheet of paper rather than four sheets[22].

For example, Father Joaquin Alonso, official Fatima archivist for sixteen years, reports in his book that, "Lucy tells us that she wrote it on a sheet of paper. Cardinal Ottaviani, who has read it, tells us the same thing: 'She wrote it on a sheet of paper' ...".[23]

In addition, Bishop Venancio, who was entrusted to transport the envelope containing the Third Secret to a Vatican representative after Lucy wrote it down, is reported to have held the envelope up to a light and noted that the Third Secret was "written on a small sheet of paper." [24][25]

Bishop Venancio also measured the dimensions of the paper, the size of its margins, and estimated there to be 20-25 lines of text.[26]

Also, Father Malachi Martin stated that he was shown the text of the Third Secret in February, 1960. On a syndicated radio broadcast, Fr. Martin indicated that the Third Secret was written on "one sheet of paper."[27]



22. Kramer, Father Paul. The Devil's Final Battle (1st Edition). pp. 27–29. (Content available for free online).

23 Alonso, Father Joaquin (1976). La Verdad sobre el Secreto de Fatima. Spain. p. 60.

24 Frère François de Marie des Anges (1994). Fatima: Tragedy and Triumph. New York, U.S.A.. p. 45.

25 Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite (1990). The Whole Truth About Fatima, Volume III. Buffalo, New York, U.S.A.. p. 481.

26 Frere Michel de la Sainte Trinite (1990). The Whole Truth About Fatima, Volume III. Buffalo, New York, U.S.A.. p. 626.

27 Father Malachi Martin on Coast to Coast AM, with interviewer Art Bell. July 13, 1998.




​

 

I said nothing about Garabandal....

 

I think the disturbance here arose because of how the Vatican reproduced the text in the booklet The Message of Fatima. It was presented as if the text was on separate sheets of paper. The subsequent impression came upon people, and, well, the rest is history. I believe Dr. Antonio Borelli talked about this matter several years ago.