"Francis has been totally orthodox..can only be faulted by faulty reading"

Sicker than it was in the past when hundreds of Bishops followed Arian? At the council the bishops turned up with all kinds of wounds.. chewed ears, broken noses and scars from the conflict with other bishops. "Bishop against bishop" So what is different today? The world has thrown God out and the devil has walked right in. This is what is called a minor apostasy and one the Lord will allow until we get on our knees and beg for help. Not long to wait now! Stay with the Barque of Peter..where there is safety.

 

Only a fool would say things are as they always have been. Only a fool cannot see the signs around us today. Only a fool.

 

As I'm online as this post came in let me point out that as Janet never said "things are as they always have been", may I ask the point of your post?

 

Where is your charity toward a fellow poster?

 

Safe under the mantle of Mary.

Just as God sealed the ark before the flood we take refuge in the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

The Church is incapable of bringing people into the ark.

Our Lady is the only hope in these end times.

 

There is no other interpretation.



For the record: Pope Francis confirms Amoris Laetitia allows communion for adulterers

In a letter reportedly leaked by a priest in Argentina, Pope Francis writes that there is “no other interpretation” of Amoris Laetitia other than one admitting divorced and remarried Catholics to Holy Communion in some cases. The letter, dated September 5, comes in response to a confidential document by the bishops of the Buenos Aires pastoral region to priests instructing them on the application of the Pope’s controversial apostolic exhortation. LifeSite has acquired copies of both original documents and has provided professional side-by-side translation.http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2016/09/for-record-pope-francis-confirms-amoris.html#more

 

It was a question Frodo. I've been wondering about this for some time myself. If you do a search of Church history you will read of the ancient scandals in the 15th and 16 centuries. Popes bribed their way into office, openly keeping mistresses and families and appointing nephews as cardinals. Alexander VI is known to be the worst Pope ever. He was accused of adultery, rape, incest and murder. So we do know that many saints and sinners have walked the corridors of the Vatican over the centuries.

 

Mac

Mac....read what I posted earlier it will explain it all.

 

"The Church is incapable of bringing people into the ark."

My goodness! How on earth can you say that? Jesus isn't a failure.

 

Dare I say it, others have been thrown
off for less!

 

No, Janet, it isn't the media. Time to face up to the fact that it's Pope Francis who is causing the confusion. The priest knew what he was doing. In another report of the blessing/wedding, he expressed a wish that his Bishop wouldn't find out because it would hinder his chances of working with the Bishop which smacks of clericalism. Cardinal Schonborn's model for "inclusiveness" has been given Papal approval and promoted as a model for the universal Church. I'm afraid that under Pope Francis the chaff is choking the wheat. This Pope has set in motion acceptance of divorce, common law marriage, homosexual unions and open communion. Rewind to a year or so ago and look at all the accusations of media misrepresentation of the Pope's intentions. It turns out that the media were honest and we gullible Catholics were being led by the nose to accepting the dismantling of Christ's teaching on marriage and sexual morality.

That priest apologised not because he was wrong but because his sacrilege was reported by the media. Give it a year or two and homosexual marriages, adulterous unions common law marriages and open communion will be the norm and acceptable. That's how false mercy panned out in Protestantism and there's no reason to suppose that it won't be the same in Catholicism until we get a Pope who actually defends the faith. By that time, the "prize for the perfect" will be regarded as no more than a cheap meal served to anyone who bothers showing up at Mass.

Incidentally, now that remarried divorcees can be given the go-ahead by a priest to engage in sexual relations for the sake of their children, how soon before Muslim or pagan converts with multiple wives and children will be given the all clear to do the rounds of their non-spouses for the sake of the children?

 

The Church is in a profound crisis in the west. The pews are filled with older people.

Where are the young people?

When Jesus said 'when I return will I find faith on the earth'? he was telling us to look at this as a 'sign of the times'. In fact this is a prophecy so Jesus predicted failure.

The Church has a fractured leadership with bishops against bishop and cardinal against cardinal.

If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

Ineffectual leadership and a lack of clarity in mission are at the heart of the crisis . The Church is sick in a profound malady that can only be remedied when we turn to Christ and preach His name.

The Church is an irrelevance to most people who ignore it because it lacks the power to influence sinful secular society. It is secular society that influences the thinking of the majority not the church or church teaching.

When atheists are told they can get to heaven then why bother entering the ark? Sure God is cool with that!

You should at least follow your heart, if you’re not going to become Catholic, and that God will be cool with that.
(Pope Francis)

Isn't that part of the problem - if you bring people Christ they will come into the ark. If you sell them short they will not bother.

 

"No, Janet, it isn't the media. Time to face up to the fact that it's Pope Francis who is causing the confusion. "

First of all I am not saying that language culture etc do not cause confusion..but Dolours Its a well known fact that the media will distort and print out of context quotes for their own agenda. This is why we have to go to the original source of any story in order to get the truth.

"Cardinal Schonborn's model for "inclusiveness" has been given Papal approval and promoted as a model for the universal Church. I'm afraid that under Pope Francis the chaff is choking the wheat."

No it certainly wasn't given papal approval. The Cardinal was wrong.

The problem you have is that you don't know the difference between loving the sinner and hating the sin. There were many like you around in Jesus' time too. Go and read the Scriptures and count how many times Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for their rigidness..and then take a look at the beautiful encounters He had with sinners.

The scribes and the Pharisees set out to tempt Jesus.....

"John 8 3-11

As he was speaking, the teachers of the religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd." 4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”

They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus continued to ignore them. He stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger..but they kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said,

“Let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!”

If I may use your words Dolours, Jesus had indeed " promoted this as a model for the universal Church. " Now anyone with any sense knows that Jesus at no time condoned the sin of adultery. He gently, but firmly, told her to stop sinning. then he forgave her.

You do know the lesson Jesus was teaching here, Dolours. Under the law the woman could be stoned, but Jesus was now teaching them something different. They were to have compassion, without condoning the sin. The accusers slipped away quietly. Another lesson....None of us are without sin! Then Jesus said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”

“No, Lord,” she said. And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

If the Pope extends his hands to sinners, he is in no way watering down the teachings of the Church, but doing exactly as Christ was doing...extending his hand in order to take the woman away from her sinfulness.

Jesus condemned the sin..He most certainly did! Pope Francis condemns the sin. Speaking out against an “ideological colonization.” he said.... “Today, in schools they are teaching this to children — to children! — that everyone can choose their gender,” The Pope's remarks were definitely not what the LGBT community wanted to hear. But why did they think they would hear anything different when Francis had already spoken out regarding Argentina's same sex marriage law...."as the work of the devil?" Because the media had failed to report on this! They didn't want to spread this truth about. Rather, they preferred to concentrate on the out of context quote...."Who am I to judge" which is actually still doing the rounds on the internet. Incredible! Did those who prefer to believe the Pope is an antipope bother to check out the truth. Nope! They prefer to believe the 'rags' They prefer to believe that an elected pope is in cahoots with satan. Lord have mercy!

The pontiff also came under fire after he compared gender theory to genetic manipulation and nuclear arms, according to the National Catholic Reporter (NCR). He said every historical period has “Herods” that “destroy, that plot designs of death, that disfigure the face of man and woman, destroying creation” the NCR reported. “Let’s think of the nuclear arms, of the possibility to annihilate in a few instants a very high number of human beings,” he was quoted as saying. “Let’s think also of genetic manipulation, of the manipulation of life, or of the gender theory, that does not recognize the order of creation.” No.. I'm afraid you won't read any of this in Lifesite news or other antipapal sites, because of publication bias, Dolours.

"This Pope has set in motion acceptance of divorce, common law marriage, homosexual unions and open communion. Rewind to a year or so ago and look at all the accusations of media misrepresentation of the Pope's intentions. It turns out that the media were honest and we gullible Catholics were being led by the nose to accepting the dismantling of Christ's teaching on marriage and sexual morality."

It is you that is being "led by the nose"..by the media. And you have to take the blame for not doing your own research. There has been no dismantling at all. Nothings changed . The doctrines are in place, only the pastoral care has changed. Taking the sinner by the hand and leading them to the confessional. Doing what Christ commanded. He didn't come for the healthy..only the sick.

"And the scribes and the Pharisees, seeing that he ate with publicans and sinners, said to his disciples: Why doth your master eat and drink with publicans and sinners? [17] Jesus hearing this, saith to them: They that are well have no need of a physician, but they that are sick. For I came not to call the just, but sinners. Mark 2

The Church has to become a "field hospital" for the sick, as the Pope keeps telling us. The people need healing, but first we have to start with ourselves.

Under Pope Francis the church is being taught once again to go out and find the 'lost' He's told bishops not to sit too comfortable on their thrones but get 'out there' and do their stuff as a true shepherd. The sheep are straying but under Francis many are coming back. Praise God!

"That priest apologised not because he was wrong but because his sacrilege was reported by the media. "

Quite possibly. He can't say he had no idea of the truth..he is a priest for goodness sake!

"Incidentally, now that remarried divorcees can be given the go-ahead by a priest to engage in sexual relations for the sake of their children........"

You see..this is the kind of rubbish I am talking about. If you only keep reading the copy and paste articles that are meant to generate controversy and hatred for the pope, then you will remain lost.

 

it is interesting that the Devil's most divisive and effective assaults on the unity of the Church involve attacks on marriage. An entire nation, England, left the Church over this very issue and the remnant Catholics there were subjected to a most cruel persecution. England never recovered and remains divided to this day.

 

I see what you see, Garabandal, in all the examples you mention concerning the profound crisis within the Church. The division you mention was foretold by Our Lady at both Garabandal and Akita.

I also agree with Janet: where we get our news matters very much when we read and interpret the meaning and intent of the Holy Father's words. The atheists are not getting to Heaven by being atheist. Not at all. An excerpt from Catholic online clarifies Pope Francis' intent:

"Pope Francis has good news for atheists. Jesus died and was raised for them as well. His redemptive embrace was for all, not just a chosen few.The choice to accept its reach is our own. The Holy Father was not teaching anything new. In fact, this hope that all who do not yet know God are not only capable of doing good - but will progress toward that knowledge of God by doing good - is ancient. The Church wants all men and women to be saved." (Full article: http://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=51077)

Indeed the Holy Father, Pope Francis, is not teaching anything new. He is highlighting several truths of our faith. I recall the encyclical by Pope St. John XXIII, Pacem in Terris, promulgated on April 11, 1963 wherein he said: "But the Creator of the world has imprinted in man's heart an order which his conscience reveals to him and enjoins him to obey: This shows that the obligations of the law are written in their hearts; their conscience utters its own testimony. And how could it be otherwise? For whatever God has made shows forth His infinite wisdom, and it is manifested more clearly in the things which have greater perfection." https://www.ewtn.com/library/encyc/i23pacem.htm

None of us gets a free pass, not those currently in the Barque of Peter nor those out of Her Safe Refuge. We will all, each and every one, be judged on how we followed the Law of God written on each human heart and this includes how we have loved. Pope Francis has repeatedly invited atheists and every sinner to do good, for God Alone is the Source of All Good. His Holiness knows if sinners strive to do good, they will encounter the Source of All Goodness and, hopefully, desire to know Him better and discover how much He loves each of us. He loves us as we are NOW. He loves us too much to leave us in our sins and if we reach for His Mercy and repent how great that will be for any and every sinner no matte how depraved the sinfulness has been! "I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent." (Luke 15:7)

I can clearly see this Vicar of Christ is accompanying sinners in love to encourage their movement toward the Lord and His Laws. So did Jesus love sinners as He walked the earth and He, too, was denigrated, again and again, by those who misinterpreted the intent of our Redeemer's words and actions. They thought they knew better than He how to convert sinners.

Praying for Pope Francis and all here.

 

Interesting that marriage was the last topic that the Pharisees tested Jesus about before His Passion...

 

Yes it is interesting.

From a 2008 interview with Cardinal Carlo Caffara (Archbishop of Bologna):

Q. There is a prophecy by Sister Lucia dos Santos, of Fatima, which concerns “the final battle between the Lord and the kingdom of Satan”. The battlefield is the family. Life and the family. We know that you were given charge by John Paul II to plan and establish the Pontifical Institute for the Studies on Marriage and the Family.

Cardinal Caffara: Yes, I was. At the start of this work entrusted to me by the Servant of God John Paul II, I wrote to Sister Lucia of Fatima through her Bishop as I couldn’t do so directly. Unexplainably however, since I didn’t expect an answer, seeing that I had only asked for prayers, I received a very long letter with her signature – now in the Institute’s archives. In it we find written: the final battle between the Lord and the reign of Satan will be about marriage and the family. Don’t be afraid, she added, because anyone who works for the sanctity of marriage and the family will always be fought and opposed in every way, because this is the decisive issue. And then she concluded: however, Our Lady has already crushed its head.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/06/cardinal-what-sister-lucia-told-me.html

 

"When atheists are told they can get to heaven then why bother entering the ark? Sure God is cool with that!"

What does Scripture say concerning this.... St. Paul tells us that a person's conscience will accuse or defend them at their judgement.... "The gentiles who do not have the law, do by nature the things of the law. They show the work of the law written on their hearts." Romans 2:14-16 He is telling us that those who have not known God yet have lived according to the law of God can be saved!

Early Church Father, St Justin Martyr explains this further..If a man accepted that law, even though he doesn't know that it's God that writes it, he is in effect following the Spirit of Christ.

God's Mercy is unfathonable

 

You should at least follow your heart, if you’re not going to become Catholic, and that God will be cool with that.
(Pope Francis)

The above isn't a quote is it?

 

Atheism is always a sin.

"Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the virtue of religion but the imputability of the offense can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances" (CCC#2125).

Only God knows which atheists suffer from invincible ignorance.

One thing is for sure there are no actual atheists in heaven.