"Francis has been totally orthodox..can only be faulted by faulty reading"

"I'm not lost Janet. I've been on this earth long enough to recognise a devious manipulator when I see one. You accuse anyone who recognises the error of the Pope Francis approach of being Pharisees, Protestants, or of suggesting he is in league with Satan. Who are you to judge"

Dolours just read your own posts. They are filled with hatred and false accusations...I have not judged you. You are judging the Successor of Peter..that is quite serious. I don't care if you judge me. I know where I stand before God. He is my judge. Please waken up tomorrow feeling better.

 

Brian did you understand anything of what you wrote?

 

Sorry Brother Al...I didn't see your post. Thank you for the welcome. ☺ God Bless You

 

Calling someone a hater and a cynic counts as personal insults in my book. It's the classic strategy adopted by supporters of the anti-Catholic agenda. No surprise that Pope Francis Catholics have adopted it. I expect that before long "basket of deplorables" will be the new catchphrase.

There is schism in the Church; not a formal schism but a schism from the faith as demonstrated by the Spanish priest and this priest who sings the praises of Tim Kaine, Hillary Clinton's running mate: http://www.wnyc.org/story/tim-kaines-pastor-describes-the-veep-picks-life-as-a-devout-catholic/ Tim Kaine is another who is excited about "Pope Francis Catholics".

And then there's the "forgotten great" Ms Bonino - controversial but never mind because we have to consider what people do. Well, in her own words, this is what she did: "With a bicycle pump, a plastic dilator and a vessel inside which the vacuum is made, and in which the contents of the uterus are emptied. I use a jar that used to hold a kilo of jam. Women don't care that I don't use a vessel purchased at a medical store, it's rather a good reason for some laughs." There's a photo on this thread of the forum, if you can stomach looking at it: http://motheofgod.com/threads/emma-bonino-abortionist.8750/

We Catholics don't need to talk about abortion and gay marriage all the time. I suppose that climate change is so much more important.

I don't hate anyone but I am very, very angry at this schism. Jesus condemned the Pharisees because their pastoral practice contradicted the faith they professed to believe. That has a familiar ring to it. I'm a Catholic - not a Pope Francis Catholic or Cardinal Burke Catholic - just a Catholic who believes that when the Church teaches that all sex outside a valid marriage is sinful, that's what the Church should reflect in its pastoral practice. Anything else is hypocrisy.

I do agree wholeheartedly with one of the Pope's statements: may God forgive the Cardinals who voted for him. May God forgive us all because it looks like we got the Pope we deserve.

I won't be contributing any more to this thread.

 

I hope you reconsider this, because you make a whole lot of sense.

I find it crazy that when all you want to do, is defend the Catholic Faith, that some will accuse you of causing schism.

 

He is not being accusedof schism...he says it already happened.

Brother al

 

Janet accused Dolours of being schism worthy .

 

You must be wondering, Janet, what's the point!

But a heartfelt thank you from me for your knowledgeable, point by point, responses which are offered with clarity, politeness and endless patience! With so much more patience than I could ever summon. Those to whom you reply (and their supporters) take no notice of course but the non-member readers will be taking note of where the truth lies in these exchanges and for that reason I hope you will be able to continue your faithful defense of the Holy Father.

 

Better to be a faithful defender of the Faith.
If defending the Faith does not defend the Holy Father .... Then there must be something wrong with the Holy Father.

 

or your 'Faith', Mac...

 

Sure.
My Faith is the Faith of our fathers David. Is yours different?

 

It certainly isn't the same as yours, Mac. I shall be very open with you and copy something I have just written to someone as an attempt to 'explain' the views of people like yourself and Brian and Dolours and others. This is not meant to be accusatory, abusive or any of the other adjectives that defenders of Pope Francis tend to be accused of. It is an attempt to explain your views which you clearly believe to be 'Catholic':

"They have a totally pharisaical approach to their faith and which is seriously challenged by Pope Francis. So they feel their whole belief system is under threat from the current papacy and those who support and defend it."​

 

Its just such a sad situation, David. I am doing nothing but presenting the truth, which is available for everyone.

God Bless You too for your wonderful defence of the truth.

 

​

The Faith is being seriously challenged by Pope Francis. Church teaching is under threat from the current papacy and those who support and defend it.

 

Yes Mac its so easy to get caught up in these things.

 

Have you started fighting the new sex ed programme yet,
Now you realise it is foul?

A sad situation indeed that you defended it.

 

You say this only because you either..... truly don't know the truth...or you prefer to ignore it. I feel it is the former and so you just need to do a little research.

Examples of truth you keep missing...

"The selfless, reciprocal, fruitful and indissoluble union between a man and a woman is part of God's original plan and "the sacrament of marriage is a great act of faith and of love," ~ Pope Francis

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1501964.htm---------------------------------------------------

Who Am I To Judge?

The quote above is not in context. Cardinal Francis George of Chicago said this quote has been very misused because he was talking about someone who has already asked for mercy and been given absolution, whom he knows well,” George said.

Repentance

The Pope said that Jesus condemned the hypocrites who called themselves 'pure' but lived a double life. If your heart is not a repentant heart, if you do not listen to the Lord, if you don’t accept correction and you do not trust in Him, your heart is unrepentant. "

"If you don't listen to the Lord, if you don’t accept correction and if you do not trust Him, your heart has not yet repented.”

"I do not know if there is a similar saying in Italian, but in our country [Argentina] those who are never ashamed are called “sin verguenza”: this means “the unashamed,” because they are people who do not have the ability to be ashamed and to be ashamed is a virtue of the humble, of the man and the woman who are humble.

Same Sex 'Marriage' And Adoption

"The prospect that same-sex couples could adopt would deprive children "of the human growth that God wanted them given by a father and a mother..... "Here again is the envy of the devil, by which sin entered into the world, that cunningly seeks to destroy the image of God: man and woman who are mandated to grow, multiply and dominate land." Pope Francis.

Abortion

Francis denounced today's "throw-away culture" that justifies disposing of lives, and said doctors in particular had been forced into situations where they are called to "not respect life."

"Every child that isn't born, but is unjustly condemned to be aborted, has the face of Jesus Christ, has the face of the Lord," he said..... He urged the gynecologists to abide by their consciences and help bring lives into the world. "Things have a price and can be for sale, but people have a dignity that is priceless and worth far more than things," he said.

Pope Francis slams attacks against human life such as abortion, embryonic experimentation and population control – saying that respect for creation and human dignity go hand in hand. "Instead of resolving the problems of the poor and thinking of how the world can be different, some can only propose a reduction in the birth rate. At times, developing countries face forms of international pressure which make economic assistance contingent on certain policies of 'reproductive health'."

Pope Francis consecrated his papacy to our Lady of Fatima. He also consecrated the Vatican to St Michael....."This age of “such great spiritual turmoil”reminded the Pope of an ancient Russian icon that depicts Our Lady covering the people of God with her mantle:“We pray to Our Lady to protect us, and in times of spiritual turbulence the safest place is under the mantle of Our Lady. She is the mother who takes care of the Church. And in this time of martyrs, she is the protagonist, the protagonist of protection: She is the Mother. (…) Let us state with faith: Mother, the Church is under your protection: Care for the Church.”

Pope Francis... the then-Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio wrote on June 22, 2010: "The Argentine people must face, in the next few weeks, a situation whose result may gravely harm the family. It is the bill on matrimony of persons of the same sex. The identity of the family, and its survival, are in jeopardy here: father, mother, and children. The life of so many children who will be discriminated beforehand due to the lack of human maturity that God willed them to have with a father and a mother is in jeopardy. At stake is the total rejection of God's law engraved in our hearts. ... Let us not be naive: it is not a simple political struggle; it is an intention [which is] destructive of the plan of God. It is not a mere legislative project (this is a mere instrument), but rather a 'move' of the father of lies who wishes to confuse and deceive the children of God."

Pope Francis on Sin

"Since becoming pope, Francis has promulgated a “theology of sin” with force and clarity. He often returns to the theme that we are all sinners who offend God, need to examine our consciences daily, and amend our lives accordingly. He has referred to himself as a sinner, publicly asked forgiveness for his sins, and requested that people pray for him . And when he was asked during the press conference why he “so insistently” invites prayer, he answered as a true shepherd would...

" I have always asked this. When I was a priest, I asked it . . . . I began to ask with greater frequency while I was working as a bishop, because I sense that if the Lord does not help in this work of assisting the People of God to go forward, it can’t be done. I am truly conscious of my many limitations, with so many problems, and I a sinner”as you know!”and I have to ask for this . . . . It comes from within. I ask Our Lady too to pray to the Lord for me. It is a habit, but a habit that comes from my heart and also a real need in terms of my work."

"Last April, Francis described his theology of sin as a three-part process. The first part is to recognize the darkness of contemporary life, and how it leads so many astray:"

" Walking in darkness means being overly pleased with ourselves, believing that we do not need salvation. That is darkness! When we continue on this road of darkness, it is not easy to turn back. Therefore, John continues, because this way of thinking made him reflect: “If we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” Look to your sins, to our sins, we are all sinners, all of us . . . . This is the starting point."

"The second stage is to realize that confession is not simply a way to remove stains from our souls”as if the confessional were a theological “dry cleaner””but rather, an encounter with Jesus Christ, who is always ready to forgive sins and transform lives. But in order to receive his healing grace, we have to acknowledge not just our sins, but our shame in violating his will. We have to be willing to say, as Francis does,"

“Lord, look . . . this is how I am.” We are often ashamed to tell the truth: “I did this, I thought this.” But shame is a true Christian virtue, and even human . . . . You need to stand in front of the Lord “with our truth of sinners.” . . . We must never masquerade before God . . . . This is the virtue that Jesus asks of us: humility and meekness."

"The third and final part of this process is having absolute faith in God to renew us:

We must have trust, because when we sin we have an advocate with the Father”“Jesus Christ the righteous.” And he “supports us before the Father” and defends us in front of our weaknesses.

"In an address to his fellow Jesuits , on the Feast of St. Ignatius, Pope Francis summed up his Catholic vision of life: “To put Christ and the Church in the center; to allow ourselves to be conquered by Him in order to serve; to feel the shame of our limitations and our sins, in order to be humble before Him.”

It’s instructive to contrast the Pope’s views with those of the secular world. Francis takes it for granted that sex outside of marriage (to cite only one sin) is gravely wrong; the world does not”and increasingly doesn’t even believe in the proper definition of marriage. The Pope maintains the urgency of confessing our sins; the world believes in celebrating and justifying them. The Pope believes it essential to acknowledge and promote a healthy Christian concept of shame, whereas the world mocks the very idea of shame. Perhaps that is why Francis, in his April address, reserved some of his strongest words for the “unashamed” firstthings.com-------

-
Pope Francis..."...Confess the Faith all of it, not part of it! Safeguard this faith, as it came to us, by way of tradition: the whole Faith!,” the Pope exclaimed. “The man or woman who has faith relies on God: entrusts himself or herself to Him! Trusting in God is what leads us to hope. Just as the confession of faith leads us to the worship and praise of God, so trust in God leads us to an attitude of hope.”

Many Christians, the Pope said, suffer from “a hope too watered down, not strong: a faint hope, they do not have the strength and the courage to trust in the Lord. But if we Christians believe confessing the faith, and safeguarding it, taking custody of the faith, and, entrusting ourselves to God, to the Lord, we shall be Christian victors. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith.” (Plenary assembly of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue)

God Bless you.

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You can use this as a good example of someone who didn't search out the full truth before opening her mouth...ME But I did keep asking if there was something I was missing. I had only half of the truth. Big mistake! Thankfully someone in here did give me the info I had been asking for. It's the film I object to.

 

I hope Dolours reconsiders it too, because he/she obviously cares very much for her faith and could be a great defender of it. He/She needs to first of all seek the truth and not her own preconceived ideas and the writings of those with an agenda.