Yes, people throw themselves into the pit. Although God does not throw us into hell, we decide to go. But in the Bible God throws the False Prophet into the pit. No ifs, ands, or buts, God shows no mercy at any time.
Yes, I agree with you both. Approved prophesies are the ones I believe we should stick with as well. Understanding the meaning of these things is very daunting however, and we certainly should be careful not to try to conform these revelations to our situations but accept them as they were then for the messages that they reveal and how our day may fit them in similarity historically and otherwise. Are we not seeing the similarity to that day emerging now? How few people outside of those who are attending Catholic schools it seems even bother with the rite of Confirmation. At least in the US, but it seems that this is the world over. I live on the west coast where religious devotion is viewed with scorn and some might say ridicule on one hand and with blase attitudes by the other. You know, the ones attending Mass! On a personal note; My Wife and I will be confirmed next weekend. If we can pass the Bishops test! It is exactly my hope that by this strengthening of the Holy Spirit it will guild our family so that if we ever should face this great test as Saint Ferrer laments that we will pass it with Joy and peace as so many have before us.
I want to thank you as well Carol, for the link to this book The Prophets and our times. I downloaded a copy of it and hope to read through it soon.
I believe if we limit God to church approved apparitions/messages only, one stifles the works of the Holy Spirit. Rather, we should hear what is has allegedly been given from heaven within the prophetic consensus of Catholic prophecy, which does not contradict scripture or church teaching. I have found those that do this have a very positive outlook on what God is doing and they exude the spirit of peace and joy in their hearts. They are not afraid of what heaven has revealed. They see God's mercy and his justice as essential for his Era of Peace to come fourth. There is many details in what God is doing that those with their ears opened have prepared like the wise virgins who's lamps were lit. There are several messengers from the past and today who are bearers of God's messages and like St. Faustina have pieces of the puzzle of God's revelation that God desires his people to understand. Best to pray for discernment to His Spirit than to reject for not having Church approval.
Don, Best wishes and congratulations on your upcoming confirmations. Your welcome for the link to Culleton's book, I have posted it often on MOG. I use his book mainly as a reference and it is easy to do so in that pdf format. I highly recommend Desmond Birch's book on the end times, "Trial, Tribulation and Triumph: Before, During and After Antichrist" which was often recommended to me on MOG by Praetorian and others. Birch uses Culleton's book as a reference also but he groups like prophecies together and tries to paint a picture of the end times events. In addition, Birch offers a chronology of the events which in summary is: a minor chastisement which begins with a minor apostasy, then an age of peace which eventually erodes into the major chastisement which many people refer to as the time of the Antichrist or the time of a major apostasy and then finally the four last things. I posted more details about this on the following thread, post #16 http://motheofgod.com/threads/random-insights-on-sequence-of-events.11305/ . I am not saying that I believe that Birch has everything absolutely correct and he states that some things are conditional but he does offer a very good outline which appears to fit very well with what Saint Hildegard and the Church has stated about the end times. I also agree with your statement that understanding the meaning of these things is very daunting and that history may play a part. Some Church Fathers believed that what will happen at the very end will be similar to what happened when Christ came over 2,000 years ago. IOW, that if the Antichrist will truly fool men into believing that he is Christ then the another person would proceed the Antichrist who would be similar to John the Baptist who was a forerunner and herald of our Savior. So, maybe the false prophet is not a pope since John the Baptist was not a pope but he will be someone who is very connected to the Antichrist and of course we also know this from scripture, ie. Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet, who wrought signs before him, wherewith he seduced them who received the character of the beast, and who adored his image. These two were cast alive into the pool of fire, burning with brimstone. One last note, I think that we have been trained to think that the Antichrist will be so noticeably "bad" from the onset that we look for individuals who fit this image, I know that was my thinking initially. Now I understand it to be a much different situation. I thought about some of the sermons from Archbishop Fulton Sheen about the devil along with the idea that the Antichrist will be a man of peace which I believe is confirmed in scripture by Saint John telling us that Jews will accept a another man as their messiah and we know that the Jews are looking for their messiah to bring peace. It is interesting to discuss these things but I don't think that they should be a point of contention either, we are all going to have our differences about this complicated subject. In the end, the most important thing is that we stood with Christ, our Savior and never denied that he came in the flesh over 2,000 years ago.
Byron, You raise a very good question, the same question that I asked about Taylor Marshall. Desmond Birch and Rev. R. Gerald Culleton are not approved by the Vatican because they are offering other people's private revelations not their own. From the back cover of Desmond Birch's book which I highly recommended it states, "The author builds his case drawing heavily on sacred scripture and only those revelations and prophecies that have been approved by the Church". Culleton on the other hand does use some private revelation that has not been approved by the Church. I think that most MOG members that read Culleton's book can identify which revelations have not been approved by the Church but I am glad that you asked this question because it is good to be aware of this and it is another reason why Desmond Birch's book is a more valuable tool for studying the end times, imho. In addition, the reason why I keep bringing up Saint Hildegard is that she is a Doctor of the Church and her end times prophecies are obviously all from one source which eliminates some human error that can occur by trying to piece small pieces of approved prophecies together from various sources. Even though Desmond Birch does in fact use approved prophecies from various sources, many people agree including some clergyman and theologians that the result is solid and brilliant. As I pointed out, Birch's book is also not in contradiction to what Saint Hildegard or the Church has stated about the end times, he simply offers more detail as a result of his study of other approved prophecies. Peace to you.
But is there an interpretation of Saint Hildegard's prophecies? Has that been approved by the Vatican? Because both Akin and Marshall just share information that are historical facts, and then tell us how Revelation is relevant to those historical facts.
There a message to Sulema in the Forum that says: Jesus, your Sacred Heart June 23, 2013 Lesson given in Limay (France) 68− Courage, my children, the battle is not lost. I am the Victor "However, the warning, it will be a horror, for those who have denied, for those who put me outside of their lives; it will be a horror, for they will see where sin has led them; they will see hell and purgatory. There are children who will sayno to Love, who will mock the Cross, for all My children will see My Cross in the Sky (Ciel). I will be there and they will mock Me. I ask you to pray, because scientists will say that everything is normal, that it is the shock between two comets. They will say that it is fear that made you believe in God because, I repeat: the illumination of consciences or the warning will be preceded by very, very great suffering. Do not be afraid, you must prepare. At the time when the Sky becomes obscure, when you will hear screams, kneel, cover yourself in My Precious Blood and pray, praise and adore in your heart." Here you can read in Italian https://myriamir.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/illuminazione-delle-coscienze-1b.pdf "Che lo crediate o no, figli miei, essa si avvicina a grandi passi; il mio divino Figlio Gesù l’ha detto. Sarà preceduta da ogni sorta di catastrofi: terremoti, tsunami, inondazioni, grandinate, un freddo glaciale, un vento che spazzerà tutto, temporali fortissimi, una calura mortale all’avvicinarsi della cometa" "Elle sera précédée de toutes sortes de catastrophes: tremblement de terre, tsunamis, inondations, grêle, un froid glacial, un vent qui va tout balayer, un orage très, très fort, une chaleur mortelle à l’approche de la comète."
Byron, I don't think that the Church publishes a list of all approved prophecies but I can tell you that Pope Benedict was the pope who made Saint Hildegard a Doctor of the Church. Since Pope Benedict is considered to be a great theologian, that says a lot in my opinion. I think that many people relate part of the Book of Revelation to the history of the Church but this particular chapter of the Bible tells the story through to Eschaton, so some of the story is in the future. I haven't said that I do not agree with what Jimmy Akin or Taylor Marshall have stated on the end times, I merely stated that I am not familiar with the writings of Taylor Marshall (or Jimmy Akin's for that matter) on this subject and since you appeared to state that Mr. Marshall stated that the entire book of Revelation is the history of the Church I immediately questioned whether or not his interpretation was approved by the Church. I think it is possible that there was/is a misunderstanding of some sort and that both Mr. Marshall and Mr. Akin may explain part of the Book of Revelation in terms of the history of the Church. If you have an interest in the end times, I think that you should get a copy of Desmond Birch's book on the subject. In the book, he painstakingly explains why the Antichrist will be an individual man by using tradition, scripture, the writings of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church and approved private Catholic prophecies. The book is really very helpful in my opinion but of course, no one is required to believe private revelation whether it is approved or not. I also found the following video from Jimmy Akin which may be helpful, Newadvent.org has a lot of information on this subject also, http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/310115.htm http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0516.htm
I wrote that Marshall believes Revelations is the story of how the Church overcomes both the Roman Empire and apostate Jerusalem to become the Roman Catholic Church. I never disagreed on an Antichrist at the end, I disagreed on a False Prophet Pope that you agreed with. So glad you put up the Akin video. I really enjoy listening to him. He's very accurate on Church teachings.
Byron, If you look back at the whole discussion, LittleVoice posted about what she believes the final prophecies of Saint Malachy mean and I stated that it could be possible that in the end the pope is the false prophet. I didn't necessarily agree with this, I stated that it could be possible. The false prophet is tied to the Antichrist whose aim is to fool all mankind. I am not certain about the prophecy from LaSallette which states that, "Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of Antichrist..." but if it is authentic it does open the possibility that in the end the Vatican itself may follow the Antichrist. In addition, we have the following scripture to consider, Luke 18:8 (DRA) I say to you, that he will quickly revenge them. But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth? I believe that Jimmy Akin is reliable but I honestly have not heard a lot of his opinions on end times prophecies. I did post another video from him in the past about the possible meanings of the Woman Clothed with the Sun but that is all. From the little that I have read or heard from him on the end times he considers many possibilities as long as they do not conflict with the Church's teachings. I believe that I do the same.
Oh Carol I just don't know what I can do to convince you that it's not the Vatican! Rome is the West, the New World Order, European Union, USA.
Rome could be the West but, with China growing Richer and expanding its influence, Rome could also be the East. Nobody knows where the power will lie when the AC arrives. For all we know, the new Roman empire could come out of Africa. It is hard to reconcile the idea of a Pope being the False Prophet with the words of Jesus to Peter "he who hears you hears Me". The Church is to suffer a passion along the lines of the Passion of Christ. Has anyone done a comparison between the events of Holy week and the possible/likely events of the passion of the Church prior to the Second Coming? Would the period after the Warning/Illumination of conscience be the Palm Sunday of end times with the Faith having spread to the ends of the earth and all Israel having converted? What about Holy Thursday and the new Judas slipping off to do his deal for 30 pieces of silver followed by the kiss of betrayal on Spy Wednesday? Then there's Peter's denial of Jesus, followed by the trial, scourging, crowning with thorns, carrying of the cross and Crucifixion. Three days in the tomb from Good Friday to Easter Sunday. Presumably this will be the period when the remnant will be at their lowest. Easter Sunday = Resurrection day for the Church will be the second coming of Jesus. We know that the reign of the AC will last three and a half years which is half a week of years. I wonder whether this means that the Church's equivalent of Holy Week will span seven years.
This seems possibly a good place for this chronology. Sorry, I can't shrink the photos. The Illumination — A Last Chance What I saw in that dark room was, I believe, a compressed vision of what is coming upon the world, according to the Church Father’s understanding of the Scriptures (which form part of the voice of Sacred Tradition because of the Father’s development of doctrine in the early Church and their proximity to the lives of the Apostles). For the sake of new readers and as a refresher, I will lay the so-called Illumination of Conscience within the Church Father’s basic chronology below, and then explain how it relates to a “new Pentecost.” A Basic Chronology I. Lawlessness Scripture attests that, in the last days, many false prophets will arise to lead the faithful astray.[1] St. John also describes this in Revelation 12 as a confrontation between the “woman clothed in the sun” with the “dragon“,[2] Satan, whom Jesus called “the father of lies.”[3] These false prophets usher in a period of growing lawlessness as the natural and moral law is abandoned for an anti-Gospel, thus preparing the way for the Antichrist. This period is accompanied by what Jesus called “the labor pains.”[4] II. Exorcism of the Dragon/Illumination**[5] Satan’s power is broken, but not ended: [6] Then war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels battled against the dragon. The dragon and its angels fought back, but they did not prevail and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. The huge dragon, the ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, who deceived the whole world, was thrown down to earth, and its angels were thrown down with it… woe to you, earth and sea, for the Devil has come down to you in great fury, for he knows he has but a short time. (Rev 12:7-9, 12) As I will explain further below, this event may be concomitant with the “illumination” described in Revelation 6, an event which signals that the “day of the Lord” has come: [7] Then I watched while he broke open the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake… Then the sky was divided like a torn scroll curling up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place… They cried out to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the one who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, because the great day of their wrath has come and who can withstand it?” (Rev 6:12-17) III. Antichrist The “restrainer” of 2 Thess 2 will be removed ushering in the Antichrist to whom the dragon gives his limited power: [8] For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. But the one who restrains is to do so only for the present, until he is removed from the scene. And then the lawless one will be revealed. (2 Thess 2:7-8) Then I saw a beast come out of the sea with ten horns and seven heads… To it the dragon gave its own power and throne, along with great authority… Fascinated, the whole world followed after the beast. (Rev 13:1-3) This Antichrist is the false light who will deceive through “every mighty deed and in signs and wonders that lie” those who have refused the graces of Divine Mercy, those who… …have not accepted the love of truth so that they may be saved. Therefore, God is sending them a deceiving power so that they may believe the lie, that all who have not believed the truth but have approved wrongdoing may be condemned. (2 Thess 2:10-12) IV. Antichrist Destroyed Those who follow the Antichrist are given a mark by which they may “buy and sell”.[9] He reigns for a short period, what St. John calls “forty two months,”[10] and then—through a manifestation of Jesus’s power— the Antichrist is destroyed: …the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord [Jesus] will kill with the breath of his mouth and render powerless by the manifestation of his coming. (2 Thess 2:8) St. Thomas and St. John Chrysostom explain… that Christ will strike the Antichrist by dazzling him with a brightness that will be like an omen and sign of His Second Coming… The most authoritative view, and the one that appears to be most in harmony with Holy Scripture, is that, after the fall of the Antichrist, the Catholic Church will once again enter upon a period of prosperity and triumph. —The End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life, Fr. Charles Arminjon (1824-1885), p. 56-57; Sophia Institute Press All those who followed the Antichrist will likewise become victims of the very “culture of death” they embraced. The beast was caught and with it the false prophet who had performed in its sight the signs by which he led astray those who had accepted the mark of the beast and those who had worshiped its image. The two were thrown alive into the fiery pool burning with sulfur. The rest were killed by the sword that came out of the mouth of the one riding the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. (cf. Rev 19:20-21) Since God, having finished His works, rested on the seventh day and blessed it, at the end of the six thousandth year all wickedness must be abolished from the earth, and righteousness reign for a thousand years…—Caecilius Firmianus Lactantius (250-317 A.D.; Ecclesiastical writer), The Divine Institutes, Vol 7 V. Era of Peace With the death of Antichrist comes the dawning of the “day of the Lord” when the earth is renewed by the Holy Spirit and Christ reigns with his saints for a “thousand years,” a symbolic number indicating an extended period of time. [11] That is, the prophecies of the Old and New Testament are fulfilled whereby Christ is made known to, and glorified in all the nations before the end of time. I and every other orthodox Christian feel certain that there will be a resurrection of the flesh followed by a thousand years in a rebuilt, embellished, and enlarged city of Jerusalem, as was announced by the Prophets Ezekiel, Isaias and others… A man among us named John, one of Christ’s Apostles, received and foretold that the followers of Christ would dwell in Jerusalem for a thousand years, and that afterwards the universal and, in short, everlasting resurrection and judgment would take place. —St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Ch. 81, The Fathers of the Church, Christian Heritage I am coming to gather all nations and tongues; they shall come and see my glory. I will place a sign among them; from them I will send survivors to the nations… to the distant coastlands which have never heard of my fame, or seen my glory; and they shall proclaim my glory among the nations. (Isaiah 66:18-19) He will be adored in the Holy Eucharist to the ends of the earth. From new moon to new moon, and from sabbath to sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, says the LORD. They shall go out and see the corpses of the people who rebelled against me… (Isaiah 66:23-24) During this period of peace, Satan is chained in the abyss for the “thousand years.” [12] He will no longer be able to tempt the Church as she grows exponentially in holiness to prepare her for the final coming of Jesus in glory… …that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. (Eph 5:27) Therefore, the Son of the most high and mighty God… shall have destroyed unrighteousness, and executed His great judgment, and shall have recalled to life the righteous, who… will be engaged among men a thousand years, and will rule them with most just command… Also the prince of devils, who is the contriver of all evils, shall be bound with chains, and shall be imprisoned during the thousand years of the heavenly rule… —4th century Ecclesiastical writer, Lactantius, “The Divine Institutes”, The ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol 7, p. 211
I certainly appreciate your questions. I am puzzled with your reference to Holy Week possibly spanning 7 years.
It understood by the Church Fathers since the beginning that the Church too will have her passion, death and resurrection in imitation of her Bridegroom. The Holy Father will lead her to Calvary. St. John Paul 2 told this to Fr Roux of the Marisn Movement of priests. He saw the coming passion and wondered if he was to be the pope. It sounds like the Fatima vision doesn't it? It's hard not to think that we are in that time--the agony of Gethsemane and the betrayal by a false apostle and the judging by self serving churchmen and the selling out to Secular authority. The cry of "no king but Caesar" from the vast majority of Catholics. On it goes. Think what lies ahead. The scourging and the stripping and the nailing to the cross. But this is the journey we are on. I'm not sure where our current Pope fits in this scenario. I pray he will "get woke" and take up the cross of the Church.
Byron, You appear to be convinced about where the Antichrist and the False Prophet come from and I am not. Imho, you have not presented enough proof of your convictions to convince me of what you have stated and so long as the Church remains open about the final deception of the Antichrist I believe I will also. To be perfectly clear, I am not saying that I know the answers. I am saying that I am open to various possibilities just as Jimmy Akin states in the video that I posted. His exact words are, "it's not clear exactly how that final deception of the Antichrist will play out..." 3:40min mark. As I stated, I am not certain about the alleged prophecies of La Salette and I should point out that Desmond Birch left them out of his book on the end times. But if it is authentic, I believe that Rome is Rome and whether or not the Vatican is included only God knows. In addition, I believe that you are trying to convince me of things that are very far from what I believe in regards to the end times. For instance, what is your chronology of end times events? Do you agree with Desmond Birch on this? I do and I don't believe that you do, so let's just agree to disagree.
Come Soon, so according to the Church fathers, Jerusalem will be the headquarters for the Antichrist and his end of power?
