Carmel, do you have a spiritual director? And have you been given permission to share these messages? Mother Mary said that many marriages where not of God. God showed the high esteem that He has for marriage that that it is indeed a vocation. Many women learn how to sacrifice their lives completely through serving their families. As is Mary's example. Mother Mary said that there were many marriages that were bad and were not of God. I would have thought in these instances that annulments would be made. There are people who abuse their children etc, when there was no sign of this before the marriage. These marriages have to be annulled or else innocent children have their souls crushed before they even learn who God is and they become so scared of intimacy that they never have the courage to come forward. They are not to be condemned. These little ones God grieves over and are the closest to His heart. Unfortunately, they have learnt to see parents as a bad thing. We don't know the lives of everyone who uses this forum and discernment, compassion and thought for that is very much needed.
Hi Marys Child, The message I received during the apparition 15 years ago was confessed to my spiritual director who is a Carmelite Priest and the provincial of my Order. He did not find anything against Catholic teachings in the message. Jesus Himself did not tell me publish these messages, but He did tell me to relay this message to my husband and anyone who asked me about them. I think you need to understand that there is a HUGE difference between a VALID marriage and a BAD marriage. Also, I will not guess at your knowledge of Church teachings, and will assume you know them. A VALID marriage CANNOT be annulled by the Church. An annullment is only granted when the marriage is found to have been invalid. The Church follows scripture in the case of a "bad" or "abusive" marriage: 1 Corinthians 7 verse 10 10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.
I just wanted to add that no matter how abusive or bad a spouse is, that Jesus expects a husband or wife to practice unconditional love and forgiveness to this person. It very well may be dangerous during a time or all the time to live with such a person, and one's bodily safety and children's safety must be first considered. But yet the abusive spouse needs us more than ever at these times: 1) To PRAY for the spouse. 2) to encourage them and support them to get professional or spiritual help, and support them when they do. 3) To not verbally abuse the spouse to their children. 4) To be a friend to the spouse by not telling their faults and verbally abusing them to friends, relatives, ect... 5) To not commit adultry or scandal, or causing hopelessness to the spouse by engaging in one-on-one friendships or relationships with members of the opposite sex. 6) To always be open to reconcilliation, and to make sure that the spouse knows this.
These marriages that you speak of are invalid, if the person had it in their heart to use their marital partner as their punch bag etc or to manipulate them. These people have no intentions of being a husband/wife or good parent. I am the product of one of these marriages and I am so fortunate in that my roman catholic faith is a miracle. But my sister and brothers no longer go to Church. I believe in my heart wholeheartedly that God is very much against the abuse of children and parents not living up to their responsibilities, as they more than anyone else should be showing the child the love of God the Father. It has taken me years and an awful lot of courage with God's help to be able to pray. I used to have panic attacks and grow very very fearful every time I took a step too close to God. There are many many out there, I offer my life for them every day. It is also incredibly difficult for many who come out of relationships like this to truly believe that God is love, confession is a very very scary place because it is about trust and intimacy. The same for those who have suffered sexual abuse, which really is sharing in the crucifixion of Christ. It is an absolute horror, indescribable. I know many who I speak to about the love of God, and just as they are listening, a sweeping statement like the above is said, and it scares them away. God is love, God is mercy. If parenthood wasn't so important to God, He would have allowed Mother Mary to bring Jesus up by herself. This wasn't the case. A child that is abused becomes so vulnerable that they often become victims of abuse elsewhere, sexual abuse too. Talk to at least 75% of drug addicts, prostitutes and you will find that they came from homes like these, or were sexually abused as children. We are all responsible for our actions to others, and if God is very severe on priests, He will be very severe on parents who neglect or are cruel to their children, especially when it causes them to fear Him. We have to be very careful with sweeping, generalized statements in His name.
I do RCIA. And I have met people who are being healed as they learn about their faith. You can see the lies that they have been filled with in the way that they were treated begin to fall. But that is just the beginning. They still have to conquer their fears, and keeping using the Truth of The Gospels to break down the lies, and hang on with all their might to the Truth of Christ. It takes guts, determination, and sheer hard work.. It is no less difficult than someone trying to give up drugs. It takes a long long time to break down lies that have been planted there before even the personality has the chance to form.. I have indeed forgiven my father for the hurt that he caused and my other tormentors too. I pray for their conversion all the time. In the case of my father, sadly, I have to keep my children away or he would destroy them. This hurts a lot. I love my dad regardless of what he has done, and I pray for him constantly. He has my forgiveness.
Mary's Child, You seem to have a problem with me. I'm sorry about that. Others on this site have asked me to tell what Jesus said to me. This I am doing. Everything I have said I can prove to you in scripture or the catachism of the church. Why in the world would children of a broken marriage be condemned, and why are you accusing me of saying that? I will not go into a word war about who between us has suffered more. Sin is sin. Period. Jesus told me I would be at the gates of hell if I committed adultry, but had to explain to me what adultry was, as even Catholics only take what they want to believe for truth sometimes. I am so blessed that He saved me from myself, because I have a hundred justifications I can think of that say I am an innocent abused party! I have read alot of your posts, and you seem to think you also have had alot of supernatural experiences, which are not easy to tell as they are very sacred to the person receiving, so I'd think you'd have a little more empathy. I've never talked about this in publc before, and thought I had found a holy group here to share with. Perhaps I was wrong and have learned my lesson.
Carmel, I am sorry if I have given you that impression. I do not have a problem with you at all, I am just trying to understand what it is that you are saying. I deal with people on a daily basis who have come from hurt broken backgrounds and who feel that the Church is not the place for them. I am not here to condemn you or discredit you, I was simply discussing what I feel in my heart. If it came across as an attack, then for that I am very sorry.
I absolutely agree with you 100% that sin is sin. But where abuse is taking place, then this is not a marriage. That is my view. My mother remained chaste after my dad finally left. And has done until this day. She is an inspiration to me.
Unfortunetly, many, many marriages are not perfect, most are bad alot of the time, and others are downright wicked and seem to be an opportunity for one to commit evil to another. If both people are not committed to prayer and faith, there is little chance their marriage will survive these days, as statistics will prove. If it can be proven, that one came into the marriage with intent to harm, of course that marriage would be probably invalid. However, all marriages bring us into a new level with God, and we must be VERY careful before proclaiming it is not real. Even if we only assist someone to leave their husband, and tell them their marriage was not valid because WE believe it is, we can put ourselves into mortal sin also. We must error on the side of the Commandments, and even if the marriage was never valid, if there were children produced by the union, the party's may not be free to start another relationship and should stay chaste as yo said your mother did and as I myself have been. The father of the children must be treated with love, prayer, forgiveness, and any help he will accept to improve as I stated above. These are things Jesus stated we must do for even our enemy so not too hard to understand. I just wish I could impress upon everyone how MUCH Jesus is hurt by all this adultry and fornication going on! I may sound a little tough but He lets me feel it very strongl y and I wish that all could just see how much this sacrament means to Him. But all will during the warning I know.
I understand and accept that this Sacrament means everything to Him. It was supposed to be a blessing, His guidance, His strength and love placed a married couple in order to bring up children in this world, who were safe, loved protected and were free to have a loving relationship with their Creator. Marriage means everything to Christ. It is also a place where we are able to learn to love unconditionally, make sacrifices, and show Christ's love and forgiveness to each other. I agree with you 100% on this. Marriage is every bit as important as the priesthood for this reason. Just two very different Sacraments, and of course the Priest represents Christ and is His hands etc in a very special way. And parents are supposed to love each other the way that Christ loves His Church and then continue that love on to their children. It is awful when it goes horribly wrong..
I would never ever encourage anyone to leave a marriage. I couldn't live with that on my conscience. However, I have told people to speak to a good Holy priest for advice.
God Bless you! I take it you have suffered. But you, through God's Grace, have been able to forgive and still love. Your rewards will be great in Heaven!
Sorry, I am coming in on this thread so forgive me if I mis-read anything: Let's say a woman who is being physically or mentally abused by her husband separates from him and lives on her own chaste and in communion with God offering her life as a reparation for his sins and she has no intention of divorce or of meeting or marrying another man then is this acceptable in the eyes of God?
I can't speak for the Lord. But I would think this would be quite acceptable. But the Lord would want you to still love and pray for him. How hard would that be, when a woman has suffered such abuse? Wouldn't God be so rewarding! Carmel, what do you say on this?
If the abuse was terrible, and all attempts were made to get him help, I would say it would be acceptable, BUT the problem is that time is now short, and all must strive for conversion. SHE may be chaste and offer it up to God, but HE might find another and commit adultry rather than be alone, and remember, we are also responsible for our spouse's soul. It would be best if she could stay, treat him kindly and forgivingly however he acts, daily telling him she loves him and wants to be pleasing to him for God's sake. At first he will be angry, and then will start to feel guilty, and after awhile her holy modest ways and love for him will save him. Of course, if he is beating her for NO reason and putting her life in danger or the children, she would have no choice to leave. But separating is NOT good, and should be avoided at all costs. That is my opinion from how Jesus explained it to me. She could keep her dignity by telling him how he is acting is wrong, but also help him regain his dignity by praising anything she can in him, like he is a hard worker and good provider. An example: he stops for a beer everyday after work, and comes home crabby and mean. She could make sure the house is clean and dinner is ready for him when he gets home everynight, keeping it warm in the oven if necessary, then telling the children in front of him "please settle down and mind your father. He works hard to provide for us everyday, and needs some peace and quiet when he gets home." Most people who are abusive get into a cycle of it thats hard for them to break, and if it is mostly ignored and they are loved and respected anyway,and with much prayer, they can overcome it. Most WANT to overcome it, and if you don't believe me ask a priest who ministers at a hospital how many last dying confessions are about being hateful to the ones they loved the most! Many men who lost their families and just became alchoholics and just never knew how to fix it, and never felt worthy to go back, thinking their family was much better off without him. I know a very holy priest at our local hospital, and he does a lot of deathbed confessions.
This conversation keeps me humble by reminding me how little I know about the Sacrament of marriage. Much to pray about. I never mind too much when people on the forum prayerfully disagree with me. I always hope its the Holy Spirit knocking on my door. I will take all this to prayer. So much I admit of this is new to me.
Now I think I will go onto the 6th Garden of Prayer. The Dark Night of the Soul. I find it a little bit intimidating writing about this garden because it concerns the very highest workings of GOd's grace and secondly because I could write until my fingers fell off and still have more to write. So mostly I am just going to write mostly about my own experiences of this prayer with little enough reference to other sources, other wise this could take forever. However for anyone interested in delving into this prayer , or stage of the SPiritual life I am first going to give some of the best sources of guidance and insight I have ever found and then I will go into bat myself.
I also recommend all the books by a modern Carmelite Prioress, who calls herself , 'Ruth Burroughs) (not her real name). Here is a good one. 'Guidelines for Mystical Prayer.'
How do you get the gats and dogs to get along, COnnie? It is a mystery. My Japanese Akita would eat my poor cat in two seconds, tail and all if she came in. I am afraid some day she will eat me...
