Prophesy - GSWYL

Just who are you suggesting are those who do not submit to those authorities you mention? In the case of Medjugorje, are you accusing those who promote Medjugorje via their own permitted travels there and their telling of personal experiences/graces received? Are you accusing the seers of defying authorities by continuing to express the messages that continue or speak to the secrets received? And the Church, even before the secrets come to pass and while the messages continue, hasn't revealed its leanings by now ordering their own official representative to live in a designated residence there just for that purpose of representing the Vatican??? Are you telling people to beware of using their reason to connect the positive dots that have come out from the Vatican and its authority or they will be in grave danger? And the most beloved and recognized Pope most familiar with the spot hasn't promoted Medjugorje personally and put his own personal stamp of approval upon it? Well, beyond all of those permissions to being currently involved in that place, if you expect and wait for an "official" pronouncement prior to the end of things there, you'll probably never see it since more than likely once the secrets come to pass the Vatican will be in no position to universally communicate such a thing to the world. Meanwhile those who take advantage of the permissions granted even before official approval are the ones who will benefit from the graces and instructions given by the Mother there for living out these grave times. BTW, there are a lot of your "authorities" within the Church as a whole who themselves are the ones giving very bad advice to the faithful on this subject and practically condemning those who don't wait for "official" approval....since they are the ones defying or just culpably ignorant of the guidance currently offered by the Church. And unfortunately the little faithful have been sufficiently terrorized by such ignorance in the authorities within their locales and then miss out on the graces permitted. Blanket statements about "authorities" in general who are owed unthinking servitude is more clericalism than what is truly meant by the Church.

 

Every Catholic on the planet with access to the Sacraments of the Church has access to all the graces required for salvation. There is no need for any Catholic to go to anywhere other than their local parish Church. The Sanctifying grace received there is every bit as holy and as fortifying as graces received in Medjugorje, and public revelation contains all the instructions we need to live out grave times in this or any time. To so much as hint otherwise is blasphemous.

 

Nevertheless, anyone discouraging such visits, is not complying with what the Church has expressed itself about this place, and apparently, indeed, the necessity of such places in our world today and the freedom of the faithful to take advantage of such heavenly interventions. Why such places are even described as the "Confessional of the world" by a Pope. You can't have it both ways. And the graces offered within the Mass, anywhere, are taught to be of greater or lesser degree or effectiveness, individually, depending upon the involvement or state of mind in union with the Mind of God, by the individual priest and the more or less conducive setting in which the Mass takes place. And that factor is actually why people refresh their experience of such by placing themselves in more "conducive" settings....and why the Church encourages times for the faithful to do just that, removing themselves from habit, placing themselves in settings that help prayer from the heart and personal openness to graces offered for their most efficient benefit....and that includes the Mass. Our Lady chooses such humble spots for her very appearances to remind us of these facts. And she uses such places to remind us of our failures that create the former conditions of lack of faith and attention to the graces given by her Son. And our Lord is seen, through his servants/saints, to lament the fact that He desires to connect and offer His overwhelming graces and yet is stifled in this longing by faithless servants/priests who offer His Masses in neglectful manners and by closed hearts of His people from whom He expects the most. That is the benefit of "coming away with Him to such places to rest and be alone with Him"!

 

None of what you have said here changes the fact that no Catholic needs to go to Medjugorje or anywhere other than their local parish church to receive all the graces necessary for salvation. That a Pope called Medjugorje the confessional of the world doesn't make it so. Nor does it make "apparitions" there approved pending a final decision decision by the Church. Until the Church authorities make a definite statement that the alleged apparitions in Medjugorje are worthy of belief, Medjugorje remains a place where it is alleged that the mother of God appeared.

As to Verne, whatever voice he was hearing wasn't God the Father. His friend's painting is a self portrait and not a likeness of God the Father who is pure spirit.

Is there any unapproved "locutionist", "seer", "visionary" or self-proclaimed prophet that you don't follow?

 

And why was the voice/locutions not God's to Verne? Surely you who disbelieve any/all alleged messenger are not the authority to determine this. I am 100% convinced of his messages being of God, but my salvation is not tied into this belief. These messages reaffirm our Catholic teachings and in no way contradict scripture or church teaching. I don't understand why the naysayers of prophecy feel they have to come on a thread to disrupt its conversations. Would it not be more charitable to leave it alone and speak to the threads that speak to you? Then you speak as if Cletus was a fake and you don't even know him. Isn't there something in our faith about bearing false witness? There is such an apparent hatred in your words, which at the very least is not Christian.

 

No one is obligated to believe in the apparitions of Medjugorje. However, if you are wondering about the times we live in and how to navigate them, the Virgin of Medjugorje encourages us and reminds us of many things that we tend to forget and always points to her Son. In every age, the LORD raises up a prophetic voice for His people and this time is no different. Her messages call us to conversion, reconciliation and peace because she comes as Queen of Peace, the last invocation in the litany of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Notice how at Fatima, the Blessed Mother asked for prayers of the Rosary and repentance.....saying if people don't convert, a worse war will break out. Look at the atrocities of WWII, Korean War, Vietnam, desert storm, war on terror, etc....No wonder we have not yet experienced the Triumph of the Immaculate heart because there is too little peace. We have this time of grace now for people to convert and some will, but some will say no. No believer in these messages that are trying to fast and pray, confess monthly, read scripture, and attend Mass as often as possible is going to regret doing these devotional practices. They are going to be grateful one day that they answered the call to do them and I would encourage as many as possible to do them to hasten the triumph of the Immaculate Heart.

 

The authority to determine whether or not God the Father was speaking to Verne is his local Bishop but Verne's messages weren't submitted for examination by his Bishop.

I don't "hate" anyone, least of all Verne. I told you before that I will ignore messages about GSWYL unless there is any attempt to give the impression that they have been declared worthy of belief by the Church. Since then, I hadn't posted on this thread until someone asked whether GSWYL had Church approval. The honest answer to that question is "No", irrespective of how many clergy have said nice things about Verne or haven't outright dismissed his messages.

The reason for my post about Medjugorje was the suggestion that people who didn't follow it or actually visit the place would be lacking the graces to cope with difficult times.

 

And lets not forget the supposed miracle being touted here regarding the Cletus self portrait is ridiculous and would not be taken seriously by any discerning catholic.

 

It was never a battle with EWTN - it was a meeting in which everything spoken of about Luisa and the writings were accepted by them. That was several years ago - before someone else got into the mix and changed their stance.

 

As Saint Di Francia said of Luisa’s writings, about Vernes’s also I echo the Saints words, “In my opinion, no human intelligence could have created them.”

 

So it is clear you will only accept apparitions and messages from heaven after Rome has full endorsed them. That leaves you on the sideline like most at Fatima, Lourdes, Akita, Kibeho etc.. and all other approved Church apparitions and messages, making fun of them as those in their time did as well, as if you have no grace to discern yourself through prayer and study what is of God. My faith tells me that Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit so that we baptized faithful may discern and hear what God's messengers are revealing. 35 years ago, when I first heard of Fatima, I was blown away by what I heard. I took to reading (which I never did much before) and was blessed to have been given the spirit to discern and accept what God had done, some of which the Church formally approved and some, which the Church has remained silent on. If heaven wants certain apparitions approved by the Church to give them its highest blessings then it will be. But no where does scripture or the church teach that we are not to believe in alleged messages that are not contrary to scripture or church teaching, but rather to discern in the light of this and in the light of what fits within the Catholic prophetic consensus. What seems very unChristian is when people put down Cletus and know hardly anything about this holy man of God who had the gift of healing and healed 100's of souls (physically and spiritually) through the grace of God while serving Him with all his heart, soul and mind before taken home. But they can answer to God for this, as I am not their judge.

 

Truth is truth!

Come back to your true Mother!

Come back to the Holy Catholic Church who is your true mother.

I will pray for all who are involved in this cult!

May God give you wisdom. Amen.

St Micheal the Archangel defend us in our day of battle. Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray; and do you, Oh Prince of the heavenly hosts, by the power of God cast into hell Satan and all evil spirits who prowl through the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

 

When I hear about a new "messenger," my first question is, does the Church approve. This is because I know I do not know enough to judge for myself, I am not expert on theology, I am not an expert in Marionology (spell?), I do not know how the Church judges a miracle, I have no scientific background to judge "healings." Most of all, I know I can be confused or misled by my emotions or my hopes. If pray to the Blessed Mother for help, and she will tell me, Listen to my Church, pay attention to what my Church teaches you, you will not go wrong! I would never want to get carried away, and lead others on the wrong path.

I know even St. Faustina was misled by the evil one, who appeared to her, and told her to destroy part of her diary. She did, and then, in obedience to her spiritual director, had to rewrite the words of Jesus to her. The devil can confuse even the best of us.

 

One ought not be holier than the Church when it comes to what the Church truly permits and has even encouraged in one's actions for the effects of the Holy Spirit in individual private revelations. To dissuade others to not follow such actions that speak louder than words by the Church is indeed stepping out beyond the Church and stands purely on one's own negative outlook, being a "minimalist", which certainly does not speak for the Church.


Is there any unapproved "locutionist", "seer", "visionary" or self-proclaimed prophet that you don't follow?

I wouldn't know, but I bet you could tell me since it would appear that you keep up with all of them, esp. it would seem those you appear to speak most negatively of and warn others against! Curiosity perhaps? When it comes to private revelations the Church may provide guidance but until there is condemnation with reasons given one is free to continue to discern and even benefit from! I would venture to say that educated faithful probably know more specifics about certain critical ones than the authorities who only become aware due to questions by the flock. And only then is there any kind of attention, often times as well without much thoroughness in study or even acquaintance with the seer/s involved.

 

Who are the witches you are referring to?

 

I have as much authority as you or any other layperson to "discern" and I have discerned that God the Father did not give Verne messages for transmitting to the world. Whatever spirit he was talking to, if there were such a spirit and not his imagination or wishful thinking, got it wrong about Christina Gallagher. Others have given reasons to beware because Verne's messages appear to contradict accepted Church teaching as well as the Catechism. I'm not making fun of anyone. The issue is far too serious for that. If I did believe that Verne had messages from God, I would encourage him to take his book of messages and his friend's painting to the parish priest and ask for an appointment with whomever the Diocese considers the appropriate person to discern whether the messages are worthy of further study. That's what I consider to be a true friend and believer.

Another issue I have with all these unapproved messages which you and others so readily promote on the internet is that when they are exposed as fraudulent or simply mistaken, you cannot undo the harm you have done by spreading them. You don't know who is reading the messages and your touting them as authentic, therefore, you cannot possibly contact each of those people to tell them you were wrong. I don't know how you can square it with your conscience that you could possibly be leading people to follow false prophets.

Cletus could well have been a very holy person, but God the Father is pure spirit. When God made us in His image and likeness, he wasn't talking about our human appearance because only God the Son was born of a woman. If you're so confident that the self-portrait of Cletus is God the Father, why don't you take it to the Bishop and ask whether he agrees with you?

I repeat, although I shouldn't have to, that I have absolutely no hatred for anyone. It is very possible (in my opinion more than likely) that Verne has fallen victim to an over-active imagination or a malevolent spirit. In that case, the most charitable and Christian response to him is to submit his "messages" for examination by the appropriate Church authority. Accusing as haters those who don't agree with you and who have told Verne to take his messages to his Bishop is anything but Christian - a common enough tactic these days employed by people who would have us call all sorts of evil good.

I won't be responding to any more of your accusations. If Verne is so sure that he has messages from God, he won't be afraid to take them to the Bishop and if you are equally sure, you won't hesitate to help him do so.

 

Who is holier than the Church? I'm encouraging people to listen to the Church and to be cautious about declaring prophecies true pending a Church pronouncement that they are worthy of belief. The Church never has and never will tell us that our souls are in danger or that we won't have enough graces to cope with trials if we don't follow approved private revelation never mind the unapproved. The Church has said that people are free to go to Medjugorje if they wish. It isn't telling anyone that if they don't go to Medjugorje or believe that Our Lady is appearing to the "seers" they won't get enough graces to endure tribulation.

I don't go looking for new seers or prophets. I had never heard of most of these so-called locutionists or "seers" before joining this forum and it's hard to avoid them here because there's hardly a thread on the forum where some "messenger" or other isn't quoted as though they had the same authority as the Apostles. When God wants the world to hear a new message, he will find a way to get that message through to the successors of the Apostles for relaying to the whole world. That's what God did at Fatima with the miracle of the sun, and the three children were obedient to the Church.

How did people benefit from following Maria Divine Mercy and other bogus messengers who were supported here and have since been exposed? How do people who supported them know that they haven't led others into the arms of false prophets? We will answer before God for every word spoken which leads people astray. Recklessness is not a virtue. Prudence is.

Enough of this nonsense. GSWYL has not been declared worthy of belief by the Church and I don't believe it ever will.

 

If prudence is a virtue then why attempt to discourage people from taking advantage of what the Church now loudly permits when it comes to Medjugorje? To go ahead of the Church is "prudent"? And whether it can benefit an individual more than what the individual finds in his/her own locale depends on that locale.

Private revelations, again, don't have to be already declared as "worthy of belief" by the Church before discernment by individuals can take place. That in fact is often the instruction given by the Church when it also is making an ongoing study or watching things as they continue to occur. The members themselves, not necessarily experts in eschatology or even mystical theology, within the specific dioceses who may be involved in such a study are no different and may be even less of experts than those members of the faithful who at the same time may be making their own individual discernment. Are those members assigned to such a duty, endangering THEIR souls and also to be warned to wait for some self anointed and appointed spirit sent from heaven to tell them "go ahead and don't worry; some day the Church WILL declare THIS one as worthy of belief"? So the Church Herself is dependent upon such human defects and that is why so often what the Church declares as worthy, at some point, due to the human component within private revelations, has been often changed at some future date by a later authority who either discovered some flaw in the original assessment, or new evidence, or even a difference of opinion on private revelations themselves, in general and just doesn't like them! So in such cases has the Church been in error Herself and caused members to become confused as to what to think about such? That's why most happenings reported here and there in the news never even begin to get studied. Nearby we had such a pretty well known and documented experience by a parish priest of a Eucharistic miracle with witnesses (and reported by the press) and who had the first stage of investigation of the material medically verified but was told by the local Bishop, known as one who simply hated such events, to "bury it" or "deep six" it and go no further. Now that approach was quite disheartening to the faithful who were there and effected personally. And such decisions will be judged as well when the time comes as to the neglected responsibility by the Church authorities. That side never seems to get its own deserved warnings!

It (the Church) isn't telling anyone that if they don't go to Medjugorje or believe that Our Lady is appearing to the "seers" they won't get enough graces to endure tribulation.

Where did that come from in this particular discussion? Rather a curve ball! Not a good use of "graces" in their reality.

 

"Verne" said earlier, "For correction purposes I was never a Freemason. It was my grandparents. I was not s satanist. I was a witch. These a major distinctions.
Thanks"

Even a former witch would undergo much more study/scrutiny than most "messengers." I am sure anyone in authority in the Church would urge Catholics to exercise caution about spreading messages, even after a conversion, because the Church looks at a person's background as part of any "messages" study.

 

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/07/13/the-satanist-on-the-path-to-sainthood/

The Satanist on the path to sainthood
by Angelo Stagnaro
posted Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011
The tomb of Blessed Bartolo Longo in the Basilica of Our Lady of the Most Holy Rosary in Pompeii. About three million pilgrims visit the basilica each year
Angelo Stagnaro visits the resting place of Blessed Bartolo Longo, the turbulent occultist who become a champion of the rosary

Pompeii has more to offer than dusty ruins filled with plaster casts of people, and one unfortunate puppy, frozen in time. It is also, coincidently, home to the only church in Christendom built by an ex-Satanist.

It’s the same old story: boy from a religious family goes away to university, falls in with a bunch of New Age Satanists, becomes a satanic high priest, thinks better of his decision and ultimately reverts to the Church; it’s the basic satanic-rags-to-saintly-riches story.

I didn’t believe this story when I first learned about Blessed Bartolo Longo either. Having grown up the son of Italian immigrants, I was regaled with all of the lurid stories of El Barto’s excesses, debauchery and general dissoluteness. I came to Pompeii not just for the ruins but also to see if the stories were true.

Bartolo Longo was born on February 10 1841 to a wealthy family in the small town of Latiano, near Brindisi in southern Italy. His parents, Dr Bartolomeo Longo and Antonina Luparelli, were devout Catholics who prayed the rosary together daily.

When Longo’s mother died in 1851, he slowly drifted away from his Catholic faith. He was left to his own devices when he studied law at the University of Naples and became involved with a New Age pagan group which ultimately “ordained” him a satanist priest. He participated in séances, fortune-telling and the de rigueur orgies. Unsatisfied with merely practising his new pagan religion, he felt it important to publicly ridicule Christianity and did everything within his power to subvert Catholic influence. He even convinced many other Catholics to leave the Church and participate in occult rites.

But none of these activities brought him joy. In fact, his life was marked by extreme depression, paranoia, confusion and nervousness. He even began to show signs of demonic obsession, as opposed to demonic possession, which included being inflicted by diabolical visions and continually declining poor health. He ultimately experienced a mental breakdown.

In his despair, he heard the voice of his deceased father urging him to “Return to God! Return to God!” In fear and desperation, Longo turned to Professor Vincenzo Pepe, a friend from his home town, for guidance. Vincenzo convinced Longo to abandon Satan and introduced him to the Dominican priest, Fr Alberto Radente. Fr Radente heard his Confession and helped him to further reclaim his life.

One evening, as he walked near-chapel at Pompeii, Bartolo had a profound mystical experience. He wrote: “As I pondered over my condition, I experienced a deep sense of despair and almost committed suicide. Then I heard an echo in my ear of the voice of Friar Alberto repeating the words of the Blessed Virgin Mary: ‘If you seek salvation, promulgate the rosary. This is Mary’s own promise.’ These words illumined my soul. I went on my knees. ‘If it is true… I will not leave this valley until I have propagated your rosary.’”

To prove his new-found commitment to Christ and His Church Bartolo even attended a séance. In the midst of it, he stood and raised a medal of the Blessed Virgin Mother and cried out: “I renounce spiritism because it is nothing but a maze of error and falsehood.”

On March 25 1871, as part of his self-imposed penance, Longo became a Third Order Dominican, taking the name Brother Rosario in honour of the rosary. He joined a charitable group in Pompeii and worked alongside Countess Mariana di Fusco, a wealthy local widow whom he married a year later on Pope Leo XIII’s recommendation.

The happy couple decided to start a confraternity of the rosary. To serve as a spiritual focus for this group, Bartolo needed a painting of the Blessed Virgin. Sister Maria Concetta de Litala of the Monastery of the Rosary at Porta Medina offered him one that she got at a Neapolitan junk shop. She paid only 3.40 lire – a tiny, insignificant sum even at the time.

The painting portrayed Our Lady of the Rosary with St Dominic and St Catherine of Siena. Though it was of modest artistic accomplishment and in very poor condition, it served Bartolo’s purpose. He described it in his journal: “Not only was it worm-eaten, but the face of the Madonna was that of a coarse, rough country-woman … a piece of canvas was missing just above her head … her mantle was cracked. Nothing need be said of the hideousness of the other figures. St Dominic looked like a street idiot. To Our Lady’s left was a St Rose. This I had changed later into a St Catherine of Siena … I hesitated whether to refuse the gift or to accept … I took it.”

In addition, the sorcerer turned born-again Catholic restored a ramshackle church in October 1873 and then sponsored a feast in honour of Our Lady of the rosary. He installed the repaired painting in this very church. Within hours of its installation miracles began to be reported and people came to the church in droves. Seeing the devotion of the pilgrims, the Bishop of Nola encouraged Bartolo to construct a larger church. He approached architect Giovanni Rispoli to build it, making the following appeal: “In this place selected for its prodigies, we wish to leave to present and future generations a monument to the Queen of Victories that will be less unworthy of her greatness but more worthy of our faith and love.”

Work on the larger building began on May 8 1876 and was consecrated in May 1891 by Cardinal La Valetta who represented Pope Leo XIII. In 1906, he and his wife donated the Pompeii shrine to the Holy See but this didn’t diminish his evangelistic zeal. Bartolo continued promoting the rosary until his death in1926, at the age of 75. To spread devotion to the rosary and to the Blessed Virgin Mary Bartolo would evangelise young people at parties and in local cafes, explaining the dangers of occultism. He would witness continually as to the glories of Christ, the munificence of His mother and the beauty of the Catholic Faith.

In 1939 the church was enlarged and re-consecrated as a basilica and officially renamed the Basilica of Our Lady of the Most Holy Rosary of Pompeii. It soon became a focus of pilgrimages for more than a century as most Catholics and non-Catholics alike found a church built by a reformed ex-Satanist to be devilishly irresistible.

Bartolo had died a saintly death and his Cause for canonisation was almost immediately called for. He was beatified by John Paul II on October 26 1980 who called him the “Apostle of the Rosary”. More than 30,000 people attended the ceremony, and 50,000 pilgrims attended Pope Benedict’s historic pastoral visit to the shrine on October 19 2008. He consecrated the world, entrusting it to Mary’s hands, offering the Blessed Virgin a golden rose. In his homily, Benedict XVI likened Bartolo Longo to St Paul of Tarsus, who also initially persecuted the Church, described Bartolo as being “militantly anticlerical and engaging in spiritualist and superstitious practices”.

He continued by saying: “Wherever God comes in this desert, flowers bloom. Even Blessed Bartolo Longo, with his personal conversion, bears witness to this spiritual power that transforms man from within and makes him capable of doing great things according to God’s designs. This city which he re-founded, is thus a historical demonstration of how God transforms the world: filling man’s heart with charity.”