There are times I miss the insights of members who have stepped back from MOG for various reasons. I just spent 5 minutes laughing over the remarks of one of my favorite saints, Thomas More. It was shared by BrianK. I miss you, Brian! In case you're ever accused of being too harsh, rigid, or judgmental, and told that "saints would never talk like that," remember this quote from St. Thomas More in dealing with Protestants: http://schools-wikipedia.org/wp/t/Thomas_More.htm More, for example, who had been commissioned by Henry VIII to respond in kind to insults that it did not befit a monarch to engage in, near the beginning of chapter 21 in the first book of the Responsio, quotes from Luther's book Against Henry: “ [The king] would have to be forgiven if humanly he erred. Now, since he knowingly and conscientiously fabricates lies against the majesty of my king in heaven [Christ], this damnable rottenness and worm, I will have the right, on behalf of my king, to bespatter his English majesty with muck and shit and to trample underfoot that crown of his which blasphemes against Christ. More responded thus: Come, do not rage so violently, good father; but if you have raved wildly enough, listen now, you pimp. You recall that you falsely complained above that the king has shown no passage in your whole book, even as an example, in which he said that you contradict yourself. You told this lie shortly before, although the king has demonstrated to you many examples of your inconsistency …. But meanwhile, for as long as your reverend paternity will be determined to tell these shameless lies, others will be permitted, on behalf of his English majesty, to throw back into your paternity’s shitty mouth, truly the shit-pool of all shit, all the muck and shit which your damnable rottenness has vomited up, and to empty out all the sewers and privies onto your crown divested of the dignity of the priestly crown, against which no less than against the kingly crown you have determined to play the buffoon. In your sense of fairness, honest reader, you will forgive me that the utterly filthy words of this scoundrel have forced me to answer such things, for which I should have begged your leave. Now I consider truer than truth that saying: ‘He who touches pitch will be wholly defiled by it’ (Sirach 13:1). For I am ashamed even of this necessity, that while I clean out the fellow’s shit-filled mouth I see my own fingers covered with shit. But who can endure such a scoundrel who shows himself possessed by a thousand vices and tormented by a legion of demons, and yet stupidly boasts thus: 'The holy fathers have all erred. The whole church has often erred. My teaching cannot err, because I am most certain that my teaching is not my own but Christ's,' alluding of course to those words of Christ, 'My words are not my own but His who sent me, the Father's' (John 12:49)?
Exciting times. We think we're bad nowadays. Althouhg I think MAritn Luther could give a lot better than he took. I think Saint Thomas really became a saitn when he was imprisoned. I remember reading about a pamphlet he wrote saying how happy he was when some poor Protestants were burnt in the Netherlands. Prison cahnged him. It was prsion that made him a saint. If anyone of us ever gets locked up for the Faith we coudl remember this,
I would have to agree, Padraig. Henry sought to break Thomas through confinement. It did quite the opposite. Safe on the Father's Lap!
I think the very hardest suffering for poor Saint Thomas came from his own family, particularly his wife who could not understand why he should not compromise. Compromise is such a magic word. The thought that we might have heaven and still have the World too. This is the mistake the Church makes today; that we can have the World and all if offers and all it thinks and still have Jesus too. So sad. St Thomas died because he would not compromise. Because he would not be, 'Inclusive'.
How sad it makes me to think that what poor Saint Thomas and tens of thousands of other good Catholics laid down their lives for Pope Francis has given away on a Modernist whim in order to accomodate the World for nothing. ..and will the world admire us more for doing so? No. They will depsise us all the more for compromise and for our weakness ; kill us still. Feeding the hungry demons make them hungrier still.
It is important to critique Protestantism, while calling out the genuine piety, good works, faith, zeal, missionary drive, and very real sacrifices of Protestant Christians. That is not based on nothing. It is based on Christ. But to say that grace alone through faith alone saves is a damnable heresy. It is sad. It kills people. It leads prayerful, misguided, lied-to souls to ruin. That is awful. We must be good. We must be very, very good. It is important to critique Protestantism. Many souls become so flipping confused. There are thousands of denominations. Some hang on and are thankful that their pastor is a man and gives decent sermons. Others give up and pray at home. Some descend into Judaism. It should not be like that.
Saint Francis De Sales was the Catholic Bishop of genva when it descended into the Calvinsit heresy. Yet he converted many thousands back to the Faith. Yet he was condemned time and time again for being too, 'Soft', with Protestants. To which he replied, 'You win more souls with a spoonful of honey than a barrel of salt'.
This is true. If you admire sincerely what is good in people, you can dialogue with them and have better conversations. People listen more to well-chosen, patient words than anger. Humility is golden. And love. But there is, too, I think, a place for righteous, balanced anger against things that are genuinely wrong, and hurting people. There is, too, a place for saying with charity and self-reflection "this is wrong". You don't need to whack off heads as you say it, but sometimes it is good to say it.
They're the guys produced it. St John Bosco based his spirituality on St Francis De Sales as did loads of other reilgious Foundations. So he is a Doctor of the Church; a kind of super saint. A Father of Saints, if you like. The Salesians of Don Bosco (SDB; also known as the Salesian Society; officially named the Society of St Francis de Sales) is a Roman Catholic Latin Rite religious institute founded in the late nineteenth century by Italian priest Saint John Bosco to help poor children during the Industrial Revolution.
Believe me, I wish I could be around more often. I’m visiting a friend tonight and stealing a moment on his WiFi.
An important point. When we read quotes from "Saints" we must remember that they weren't necessarily saints from the moment they were conceived until they expired. Some of them led very dissolute lives before being converted. I am sure there are plenty of imperfect things that saints have said.
I find it heartneing in a way that the saints were not always perfect. In a funny way it gives me great hope. One thing I do notice about them is that even when tehy made mistakes it seemed to work out well in the end. Take the case of St John VIanney for instance. He admitted later on life that when he was young he over fasted and hurt his health. However it was his very fasting and penance that gave him his great spiritual power This reminds me of what St Paul siad, that for those who love God all things work to gether unto good. All things; even our sins.
One saint who appeared to have made a huge mistake was St Vincent Ferrer, 'The angel of the Apocalypse' , who preached throughout Europe that the End of the World was about to come and of course it did not. On the other hand some people think maybe it was because people converted that this never happened. https://catholicexchange.com/st-vincent-ferrer-angel-of-the-apocalypse
It was precisely because he converted so many souls that the end did not come. He is an amazing saint. There are 873 recorded miracles performed by him in his quest to convert others, some of these were people being raised from the dead. His story is remarkable. He is one of my favorites.
