I 100% agree! She totally was given to us all as our mother by her son. She loves and comforts all her children, she leads all to her son. She serves our Lord as the General in this war against chaos and divisiveness. I will follow her through it all, because I know she will lead her army to my Lord,Jesus and salvation. She is not normal, she is perfect.
Wbtw, Interesting point. Mark stayed away from MOG for over 2.5 years and I am not certain what Mark's objective is by coming back to MOG at this time but he appears to be suggesting that we don't discuss anything controversial that is related to Pope Francis unless I'm misunderstanding him. Personally, I'm glad for the members who have stayed here through the rough seas and helped to sort things out. At times some of us may have been tempted to jump ship but others have helped them stay on board. I hope that I have been someone that has helped others to stay on board. It sounds like Mark has done the same through his own blog, this is a positive thing and hopefully he'll begin to understand that others need to talk about these things. In addition, when I do comment about the pope or anyone else I do consider that I will be standing in front of God someday and I will have to answer for my statements and my actions, I think that all of us here probably consider this. *** As a result of this discussion, I came across the following article which discusses some of the concerns that Cardinal Sarah has voiced in regard to the Church and the world and possibly the pope. I don't agree with absolutely everything that the author says but he makes many, many good points. I have decided to post the article in it's entirety here, Cardinal Sarah castigates Francis regime in ‘The Power of Silence’ Steve Jalsevac | https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/...mplied-rebukes-of-francis-papacy-in-the-power September 29, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) – On May 12 I wrote about the exceptional spiritual advice in Cardinal Robert Sarah’s latest book, The Power of Silence. What I did not realize then was that Sarah also excoriates the Francis papacy (the pope, his appointees and strongest followers), by implication, in several places in the book. Sarah understands the hard sayings of Jesus Christ and the sacred duty of pastors to also imitate the Master in this when circumstances require it. I hope that at least all LifeSite Catholic readers will read these particular excerpts from the book. They are crucial at this time of great disorientation in the Church that is affecting much more than just Catholics in the world. The Catholic Church has, until Pope Francis, been the world’s most consistent and brightest beacon of truth on Christian moral teachings. Many other Christians, and even persons of non-Christian faiths, have depended on the Catholic Church to promote and defend those Natural Law teachings. They are a necessary foundation for any civilized society. But now, as Sarah reveals, the Church itself is rapidly sliding into self-destructive worldliness and away from its core mandate from Jesus Christ – to preach the gospel in order to save souls. Support the filial correction of Pope Francis for 'propagating heresies'. Sign the petition! Each excerpt below is noted either with a section number or page number, as published in the book. Key phrases from the book are bolded. My comments are in italics. Cardinal Sarah's indictments in The Power of Silence 31. I will untiringly denounce those who are unfaithful to the promise of their ordination. In order to make themselves known or to impose their personal views (1), both on the theological and the pastoral (2) level, they speak again and again. These clerics repeat the same banal things. I could not affirm that God dwells within them (3). (1 ) Francis and those he has placed around him have indicated that the pope's often very questionable, if not downright flawed personal views should be considered magisterial teaching. (2) Francis and his most fervent supporters constantly emphasize that pastoral considerations should supersede doctrinal (truth, moral absolutes) considerations. (3) A severe rebuke, similar to some that the apostles and many saints have had to state in the past for the good of souls. 31. But they talk (4), and the media love to listen to them (5) in order to [reveal] their ineptitudes, particularly if they declared themselves in favour of the new post humanist ideologies, in the realm of sexuality, the family, and marriage (Amoris Laetitia?). These clerics consider God’s thinking about conjugal life to be an "evangelical ideal"(6). Marriage is no longer a requirement willed by God, modeled and manifested in the nuptial bond between Christ and the Church. Some theologians in their presumptuousness and arrogance go so far as to assert personal opinions that are difficult to reconcile with revelation, tradition, the centuries–old Magisterium of the Church, and the teaching of Christ. Thus, highly amplified by the blaring media, they go so far as to dispute God’s design. (7) (4) Many have expressed concerns that Pope Francis talks far too much, does not prepare his many public statements and is prone to harmful, poor responses to questions on airplanes or elsewhere. (5) Pope Francis controversial statements and actions have been very popular among most of the world's mainstream media and among people such as Al Gore, Hilary and Bill Clinton, Elton John, Leonardo DiCaprio, Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi and very many more such persons who have been consistent, fervent opponents of Catholic moral teachings. (6) See what Raymond Arroyo and Father Gerald Murray say about the Francis concept of marriage as an “ideal” (subsection Accompaniment and the “ideal”) (7) Another strong indictment that could also apply to Cardinal Kasper and many of the other very liberal cardinals, bishops clergy, theologians and notable laity most supportive of Francis. p. 39 Bishops that scatter the sheep that Jesus has entrusted to them will be judged mercilessly and severely by God. (Vocations have notably declined since the beginning of the Francis papacy, as has attendance at regular papal audiences in Vatican City. In the developed nations Church attendence has been dramatically declining (with some exceptions) and hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of parishes are being closed and sold) continued....
continued from above.... 34. Our future is in God’s hands and not in the noisy agitation of human negotiations, even if they may appear useful. Even today, our pastoral strategies without any demands, without an appeal to conversion (8), without a radical return to God, are paths that lead nowhere. They are politically correct games that cannot lead us to the crucified God, our true Liberator. (8) This refers to some of the most serious errors of the Francis papacy. See “Three bishops launch ‘spiritual crusade’ urging Pope to rebuke Communion for adulterers.” 40. And yet, for two millennia, what a surprising paradox it has been to see so many garrulous theologians, so many noisy popes, so many successors of the Apostles are pretentious and infatuated with their own arguments. 95. Through this asceticism of silence, how can we not understand and appreciate better the lights offered by the different Bible verses? "When words are many, transgression is not lacking" (Prov 10:19). "He who guards his mouth preserves his life; He who opens wide his lips comes to ruin" (Prov 13:3). "Whoever uses too many words will be loathed" (Sir 20:8). "I tell you, on the day of judgement men will render account for every careless word they utter" (Mt 12:36). "Make balances and scales for your words, and make a door and a bolt for your mouth. Beware lest you err with your tongue, lest you fall before him who lies in wait" (Sir 28:25–26). ( Pope Francis and his main clerical and lay supporters have shown themselves to be ruthless, frequently insulting and harshly critical of those who merely respectfully express concerns about any of his statements or decisions) p.106 Some Christians are forming a coalition to separate Jesus and his doctrine from those who honestly seek the truth (9). He is more and more alone among men who hate him or do not know how to love him because they are in incapable of knowing him as he is. But there will always be a little flock that will want to know him and love him. (See Pope Benedict’s prediction) (9) This has been one of the most common and severe criticisms of Francis. 214. During conclaves, the spirit points out God’s choice to the Cardinals; the latter must submit to his will and not to human political strategies. If we thwart the Holy Spirit by miserable, petty human calculations, secret meetings, and media consultations, we run headlong into tragedy and we are gravediggers of the divine nature of the church (There have been serious concerns about forbidden scheming during the conclave that elected Pope Francis.) 215. The rejection of the Spirit is a blasphemy and a mortal sin because it is a matter of rejecting the truth. Without the spirit, the church is in danger of becoming a new tower of Babel. The different and deviant languages drown out the testament of the son of God. Some pretentious, cynical ideologues threaten the truth of Jesus. Confusion, relativism, and chaos point toward to be fatal prospect. 303. In speaking about Vatican II, Benedict XVI had already detailed the conflict between the vision of the Council Fathers and the relativistic, falsely progressive media interpretation… The Church is a faithful, loving mother. She is a mother before she is a hospital facility… She educates teaches and nourishes, concerned about the physical and moral health of the faithful: this, incidentally, is the area covered by the image of the Church as a field hospital (a term Pope Francis often uses to describe the Church). 304. The social mission is fundamental, but the salvation of souls is more important than any other work. Saving souls entails not only caring for them but above all drawing them to God, converting them, so as to bring the prodigal children back to the house of the father of mercies. The primary and fundamental role of the Church today remains the salvation of souls. (Pope Francis has been criticized for emphasizing worldly issues such as climate change, poverty, unemployment, immigration, etc. far more than the core spiritual mission of the Church given to it by Jesus Christ. He has been severely critical of attempts to convert Orthodox and Protestant or other non-Catholic Christians and even Muslims to the Catholic faith calling it a grave sin to do so. It is likely that has this never been heard from a pope in past Church history.) 305. In a secularized, decadent world, if the Church allows herself to be lured by materialistic, media – savvy, and relativistic sirens, she runs the risk of making Christ's death on the cross for the salvation of souls futile. The Church’s mission is not to solve all the social problems of the world. (Pope Francis has praised and resurrected forbidden Liberation Theology and its strongly materialistic/Marxist political emphasis. He is also criticized for promoting modernism, condemned by Pope St. Pius X, which relativizes truth according to current social and historical circumstances. The Francis papacy has also been a dedicated exploiter of media and modern Internet opportunities). 310. How many families are decimated in order to impose a Western concept of society…In these anti-chambers of horror, the Church is not spared. She must disappear or change her doctrine and her teachings so as to allow for the emergence of a religion without borders and a new global ethics (10) and said to be consensual, cut off from all the foundational references of revealed truth (doctrine, scripture, catechism, tradition) and yet itself ambivalent and devoid of content. (10) Francis has strongly advocated globalist goals of open borders, limiting of national sovereignty, massive redistribution of money from rich nations to poor ones and strengthening and establishment of world governance entities - a form of international socialism or what some would call totalitarianism. The Vatican under Francis has been intensely promoting the Paris Climate Change agreement which would bring about many of these revolutionary changes. p. 194. The narcissism of excessive speech is a temptation from Satan. It results in a form of detestable exteriorization, in which man wallows on the surface of himself, making noise so as to not hear God. It is essential for priests to learn to keep to themselves words and opinions they have not taken the trouble to meditate on, interiorize, and engrave in the depth of their heart. We must preach the word of God and certainly not our petty thoughts! p. 208 Men no longer want to see themselves as anything but fragile, wounded persons. The impression is given that sin no longer exists; adultery, divorce, cohabitation are no longer to be considered serious sins. They are failures or stages along the way to a distant ideal (Amoris Laetitia). p. 218 It is urgent for the modern world to regain a faith perspective. Otherwise mankind is headed for destruction. The Church cannot confine herself to a merely social vision. Charity has a spiritual meeting. Charity is closely related to God’s silence. * p. 222 The Church today is going through unprecedented exterior and into interior trials. Something like an earthquake is seeking to demolish her doctrinal foundations and her centuries-old moral teachings. (Another very strong indictment and a summary of the entire situation.) p.223 It is necessary to revive staunch adherence to the Catholic faith, it is necessary to proclaim the consistency of the Church at the heart of a world that is in complete upheaval and threatened with collapse. (see Pope Benedict’s statement at Meisner funeral) Buy and read the book. It is historic, inspiring, instructive and prophetic.
My Spiritual Father...clear and concise but never attacking or arrogant. The spiritual battle is gaining traction. Thank you for that post. He never states Our Holy Father is not the POPE. He only states many clergy including the Holy Father must return to the Spiritual and not worldly pursuits. Br al
You guys are too much! I understand we have groups that stick together in this forum. Just like the clergy or politicians...but some of you take it too far. Personally, I don't read Mark because he is too wordy for me...but having said that, he works hard evangelizing the faith. You might not like everything he says but some of you are outright rude. I'm glad he is on MOG. I'm glad to see miker, Petrorian (even though he has gradually turned more militant: just joking ) and a few others I haven't seen in years. Friendly debate and conversation is good because we are able to grow. The good and the bad. Anyone who thinks they know everything is already lost. There is noway we can understand Gods plan. Things are happening quickly. In all our jiberish, each of us might have a little grain of salt... of Gods mystical plan. Let enjoy our debates and learn from each other. Some very spiritual and educated people were pushed out of this forum. Lets be more open. The time seems to be getting close 1 year or 1000 years. Lets be ready. Br. al
I don't think this is fair to Mark. I don't care for some of the aspects of his writings when they seem to be explaining things away at times, but I do not think he and Walford are in the same category at all. Worlds apart actually. Walford is pro-Pope Francis and seems to be right on board with the whole Modernist coup. Mark is pro-Papacy and Francis just happens to be the Pope. There is a huge difference there. The first is a cult of personality and the second is where all Catholics should be. Any man who holds the office is fallible (except under strict and limited circumstances), but the office itself must be respected. In this though I (as probably many do) feel Mark goes too far into trying to defend every utterance and reconcile them with Catholic teaching. Some of them just can't be. He is trying to put a square peg in a round hole at times. The difference is Stephen is happy as a clam with the changes that are being made in the "new church" and Mark seems to be very uncomfortable at the perversion of the faith. He is doing his best to try to reconcile the Pope's actions and words with Catholic Tradition and teaching. So, though it may at times appear that they are doing similar things, there motives and desired outcomes are entirely different. Mark is feeling his way through this. I am confident that as the Vatican strays farther and farther from the truth, he will question more and more how he should handle things. Up until recently Patrick Coffin, Taylor Marshall, etc. all were explaining things away. It gets tiresome after a while - unless you are on board with all of it and I don't believe that Mark is. You can sense the good Catholic roots in him. He is just trying to handle the situation as best as he feels he can.
I wholeheartedly agree. We here must be open to discussion with those who take a different tack. Not heretics, they should be thrown off, but good solid Catholics who approach the situation differently. Though in general most of us may approach the situation differently than Mark I think we can learn from him as well. We must be charitable, not naive, but charitble. Very much so. And yes, Fallen Saint I have become more militant, but that is because the situation has changed. When things were less clear I was willing to give more slack, but as things are coming clearly into the open now it is obvious that enemies of Christ are operating at the highest levels and are attempting to overturn the Church. So as their approach has become more strident, so has my opposition to it. If I ever go too far though or say something untrue or without charity let me know. I am capable of going too far, just as anyone else it. I can be prone to anger, pride, and hot headedness. I know I make mistakes and can speak uncharitably, I try to do my best to avoid both, but may not always succeed, though I am willing to be corrected if wrong in either facts or my approach.
You can count me in as well to the vile that at times appears on the MOG, not because there is a rift about doctrinal teachings of the faith, but because some may follow current prophecy and some don't or whatever it may be that does not fit ones own thinking. It was a sad day when we lost theologians on this site like Peter B and occasional visits with other theologians or Mark Mallett or those who put allot of time in learning and teaching the faith. Everyone has a right to ones opinion, but what I don't respect is when someone tries to shut down discussion, which they don't agree with, but it doesn't fit their taste. I have seen it on the Divine Will topics or on any number of other threads that speak to the mystical or prophetic. Some will have the respect to just leave them alone, while others will throw their disgust for them to even be part of the MOG forum. As far as I am concerned, current alleged prophecy is unfolding rapidly at this very moment. Take a look at Pedro Regis latest message that has been spoken to him. I have not seen it be this crystal clear, but the times are changing as fast as the wind and its direction these days. February 9th, 12019 www.pedroregis.com Dear children, a great war will occur between the true Church of My Jesus and the false church. It will be a time of pain for men and women of faith. Do not depart from the truth. You are the Lord's, and He expects much of you. Do not be afraid. My Lord will reward you generously for your courage in defending the truth. False teachings will defile many of My poor children. The Church of My Jesus will drink the bitter chalice of pain, but in the end it will be victorious. Onward without fear. I ask you to keep the flame of your faith alight. Seek strength in Prayer, in the Gospel and in the Eucharist. Whoever is with the Lord will never experience the weight of defeat. I know your needs and I will pray to My Jesus for you. Courage. This is the message I give you today in the name of the Most Holy Trinity. Thank you for having allowed Me to gather you here once more. I bless you, in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. Be at peace.
The message for Pedro R. Rings true. It is where we are. I'd like to add that disagreement with another forum member is not necessarily "shutting them down." Those who have done that have as I recall been disinvited by Padraig. Healthy debate is how we penetrate to the core of each issue. Where private revelation is concerned it is a matter for individual. The Church wisely does not impose belief even in the case of Fatima. I think charity and generosity must always operate even in disagreements. Mark Mallet has been a valuable resource over the years. He has sacrificed a lot to stay faithful to the call of a lay evangelist. This has been a hard lonely road for him. I would like more unambiguous commentary on PF and the Vatican but I too fear to cross the line in criticizing. Sometimes I just keep silent because there is no good way to speak. I'm glad he joined us. I admire his careful charity. I wish him well.
It is probably best to keep on topic on this thread. We can spar later on the your judgement of alleged current apparitions & Divine Will - which has no approved English translations - later on more appropriate threads.
Yes, there is a difference between strident debate over issues and putting a stop to those who come here espousing Modernist, sedevacantist, or other heretical beliefs. If someone like Stephen Walford came on here spouting his Modernist garbage I would be all for having him removed. Mark Mallett and others who may have varying ideas about how to handle the current crisis, but who are undoubtedly devout Catholics, should be encouraged to stay and hash out these issues. Let us be honest, none of us knows how to handle this crisis and that is the exact problem. By having a vigorous, but respectful back and forth we can all learn from each other. We are in a little fish bowl here and as much as that is good because we can be supportive of each other when it seems the world and even at times our own Church is against us, it also means that there is sometimes little in the way of variation of thought. That has it's good and bad points. I think members like Mark who challenge us to be more charitable, even if we think he may take that to the ultimate degree, will help us be more balanced in dealing with the crisis. As much as I may wish Mark would be more strident in dealing with the errors aboud, he helps to provide a counter-balance to those who may go to the other extreme. Launching attacks and verbiage at the Pope I would not even say to my worst enemy. It is not just that we fight error, but how we do it that is important. Quite frankly there are far too many blogs and Youtube channels that spit vitriol and hate towards the Holy Father. I can very much understand this from a psychological standpoint, but Christ sometimes challenges us to fight our own natures as well as exterior forces. It is up to us in humility to carry the flickering flame of faith in these difficult times. Stand up and speak against error yes, but always remember our place. Calling the Holy Father names, as some bloggers do, does nothing but diminish the honor due the Papacy. It gives those bloggers and some of their readership a form of emotional venting, but it really does little to help others to grow in holiness. Cardinal Burke or Bishop Schneider would never speak that way. Let us be careful not to let our own actions devolve to an extent that we do that. Vengeance is for God, not us. Revenge not yourselves, my dearly beloved; but give place unto wrath, for it is written: Revenge is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord. -Romans 12:19
It's surprising Mark came back for a final post considering the lack of charity he receives by some. Personal attacks and belittling comments and even suspicision about why he is here. It feels like a mini mob where you either agree or you are shunned from the forum. To me it highlighs a perfect example of a divisive flock and explains why many good Catholics have left. I can hardly imagine what many non-posting readers think of it all. I wonder what the Virgin thinks of her so named forum at times. What is it's real mission and goal? Saving souls? The lastest pope gossip? Maybe it could be called The Vatican Has Fallen Blog or Catholics Against Pope Francis Blog and be the same. MM is no fool and he isn't going to be more acceptable to God and more loved by Mary if he falls in line with the general thought of this thread and spends more time dishing on the Pope. The opposite could even be possible. I believe he still sees the big picture better than most and has a better depth of knowledge than most also. He is a good Catholic who answered God's call to start a ministry without a safety net. He is helping save souls. He is a brother yet not treated like one. I'm not all that concerned with Pope Francis. God will work things for the good in the end. Jesus I trust in You! There was a major reason God pushed this picture and message out. The sins of the entire world are why were are where we are now, this Pope is just a puzzle piece and likely part of God's master plan.
My sentiments as well. I am also wondering if the countless confusing statements coming from the pope are intentional? If they aren’t, they why does he repeadly refuse to either correct or explain himself. We have legitimate cause to question him....but even when we do, he remains silent...deliberately adding to the growing number of the faithful questioning his motives. He is quickly losing his apologist ..and for good reason.
Actually, I had qualms of conscience after I posted that message and considered asking the admin to delete it. If you look back at the start of the thread, you'll see that I had then (and still have) some sympathy for Mark and other faithful Catholics in his position. His quoting Tornielli in response to someone who raised the question of the unanswered dubia rankled with me, but I decided to bite my tongue (fingers in this case) rather than get into an argument. There are different ways of being aggressive. Some are up front about it and lash out. Others are more subtle, hiding behind the "for the good of your soul" excuse while calling people schismatics or heretics. Although both methods are agressive, one form is less socially acceptable than the other although it is probably more honest. In the course of this papacy, we have seen people launch slurs on Bishops and theologians who defended the faith. Some of those who questioned Amoris Laetitia lost their jobs. Verbal attackers of those who doubted AL or pointed out the Pope's inconsistencies remain in their posts or have been rewarded. As far as I'm concerned, anyone making excuses for Pope Francis owns all of that, especially if they quote Tornielli to validate their position. Tornielli wrote a book claiming to refute the Vigano testimony and is now the head bottle washer at Vatican Communications. I neither know nor care about the credentials of the apologist at Catholic Answers whom Mark quoted as a kind of comfort blanket for easing his misgivings about the Abu Dhabi statement on God willing a pleurality of religions. The statement made Mark uncomfortable. That was his catholic conscience kicking in but he was willing to give it a pass because Francis is the Pope after all, a big-shot from CA says it's nothing to worry about, and all those conspiracy theorists are nutjobs. In fairness to Mark when he expressed some uncertainty about the Abu Dhabi statement, he honestly related what the Pope said about having consulted the Dominican theologian and the theologian saying that he hadn't seen the final draft. What worries me, and I'm surprised it doesn't worry Mark, is that a Pope would need to consult a theologian to know what Catholics learn (or should learn) in childhood: that Jesus - son of the Father - the Word made flesh and second person of the triune God, commissioned his disciples to proclaim to the whole world that He is the way, the truth and the life, and nobody comes to the Father except through Him. That a Pope would put his name to a document which could be read in any way other than what Jesus told us about himself is simply scandalous. Any Muslim reading that document has had it affirmed by the Vicar of Christ that Muhammed is God's messenger, instructed by an angel of the Lord to proclaim to the world that God is one person, that Jesus didn't die on the cross and rise again after three days. Any Jew reading that document has had it affirmed by the Vicar of Christ that Jesus, if he existed, was no more than a social justice warrior. Anyone of any other religion has had it affirmed that the God of the Christians is ok that they worship a different God. Has it occurred to Mark that those of us who questioned AL also have a Catholic conscience, as do those who question the validity of this papacy? Perhaps their consciences are not so easily assuaged. Wouldn't charity prompt him to give them the benefit of the doubt? Perhaps they aren't really nutjobs. The reservations about AL have been proved to be well grounded as we see Bishops using it to justify Catholic recognition of same sex unions. If the doubts about the validity of the Francis papacy also transpire to have been well grounded, the Pope Mark is making excuses for would have no charism of infallibility and zero magisterial authority would apply to him and the Bishops in union with him. As to people being hounded off the forum, someone mentioned a Peter. I don't know who he is, but if he wasn't banned then he used his own free will to leave. I have seen someone banned - someone who was rather fond of calling others heretics and eventually got banned for trying to justify the Lettergate scandal. Debate is good, charity is better but what's charity without honesty? All that said, I do owe Mark an apology for the sarcastic tone of my post. My apologies to Mark.
Everyone should be able to voice an opinion without fear of being verbally slain. One would have to be living in a paper bag, though, to not be emotionally invested in the future of our beloved Church. I think for the most part we are a fairly patient and open-minded group that will entertain the ideas and information that each poster deems important enough to post. It has actually taken me many, many months to even consider the possibility of a papacy like the one Pope Francis has lived out. I went from experiencing joy for the humble Pope whose first words were to ask us for our prayers for him to shock at the continual political and cultural pronouncements at the cost of true, clear Catholic doctrine. I do listen to the homilies of Pope Francis within the Masses at Casa Santa Marta and rejoice when his teachings are solid and clearly reflect the words of Christ. But I've grown to listen far more carefully for the hint of anti-truth or dulling of a sharply uncomplicated message. God has given us many holy and courageous priests and lay people to lead us through the murky water at this point and I thank everyone here for finding and sharing them with all of us. It's this fighting spirit that will keep us primed and ready for the real battles that we are already waging with family members, co-workers, and haters of Christianity. Here is one priest who was forbidden to continue his path of direct confrontation of the hierarchy. Father Goring was an obedient religious the second he received his orders from his superior. He found a great way to continue the fight while teaching all of the importance of obedience.
Thanks Dolours. It did seem that your lumping in of Mark with Walford was out of frustration. Thanks for clarifying all that. I too sometimes get frustrated when I read Mark's articles. I always learn something though. They are well put together and bring up information I may not have been exposed to from other sources. I think the frustration comes because it is sometimes too much charity, if there could be such a thing lol. Like having some candy is nice, but a whole bowl full can make you sick. I wonder what kind of charity people like St. Athanasius showed the heretics of their day. Sometimes I think we moderns have a warped sense of understanding charity. Maybe sometimes being charitable is giving someone a swift kick. Brian once posted a list of shocking statements made by saints, many of which would make us wince today. Charity is good, but I think one can honestly take it too far. Then it at least has the appearance of making it look like you are making excuses for the person. I think that is what is happening with some of Mark's articles, not all, but some. He is bending over so far to be charitable and explain everything in a Catholic sense when sometimes it clearly cannot. Sometimes there are clearly problems. To cover that up is actually uncharitable to the readers. It may give them a poor sense of understanding what is happening. I admit I dance around the subject of the Pope. I don't reference him directly often because it makes me uncomfortable. Still, a watchman on the city wall who sees an enemy army approaching and in assuming they have the best of intentions says "Well maybe they are just lost so I won't warn our army to prepare" is not of much use. Sometimes assuming the best of intentions is not always the right thing to do. We need to use our discernment too. If a child predator moves in next door, you can be darned sure I will make the neighbors aware. That might seem "uncharitable" to the child predator, but not to do so would be criminal towards the neighbors.
UNCHARITABLE? DIVISIVE? STRIDENT? Recovering the Art of Christian Polemics Most well-read Christians know the two most famous stories of the early Church's approach to dialogue. St. Polycarp tells us that the apostle John once went to the public bath in Ephesus and found inside a Gnostic teacher named Cerinthus. John ran out crying, "Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within." Polycarp himself once met the heretic Marcion walking down the street. Marcion hated the creator-God of the Hebrews, and to get rid of Him had tossed out the Old Testament and much of the New and rewrote the bits he kept. Marcion asked Polycarp, "Do you know me?" and Polycarp answered, "I do know you. You are the firstborn of Satan." Their Reason By and large, modern Christians donot speak like this, though we haveteachers as hostile to the Faith as Cerinthus and Marcion. Many of them speak with the authority of chairs in theology and of "reverend" beforetheir name, and publish books thevulnerable, the naïve, and the gullible read and believe. These teachers are just as dangerous to peoples' souls as the great heretics of the firstcenturies, but we do not speak of our heretics as the great saints spoke of theirs. There’s a reason I speak the way I do here. Polycarp is one of my patrons
Christians of the coming generations will judge us very harshly for not speaking out more forcefully regarding the present errors. Hopefully God will be more merciful.
Bravo! This is an excellent post. I agree about the people who have left the forum, most of them leaving of their own choice. Also, just because someone is a theologian doesn’t mean that their posts are necessarily from the Holy Spirit and the Blessed Mother. Yes, truth is a huge part of charity. Otherwise we become enablers.
