I wonder if poor Michael has lost the plot posting stuff like this? I watched it for less than a minute and then had to switch off in a big hurry. It left me wondering if he had lost the plot.
This is one significant failure of discernment on his part, due in large part to the fact he was desensitized to it by his previous background. He should not have done this, but I think it’s an isolated failure to discern, not general.
I sure do hope so. Dreadful. We'll see if he repents and ploughs back on it. If he does so I will delete this entire thread and forget about it. I wish nothing so much as to forget about this whole sad , sorry matter. Disgusting..
Padraig, I watched the whole thing. It is absolutely a difficult topic for any of us on MOG (really for anyone) and as difficult as it is to watch I think that everyone should watch it because I think that most people have a difficult time believing that this sort of grooming and abuse goes on. I think that we tend to think that a young adult would have never got themselves into this situation unless it was forced, iow, rape or that they were willing but if you watch the whole video Father Bob tells the young man to do ecstasy while the priest is present and then the priest tries to abuse him. I also believe that Voris states that 4 of this priest's victims committed suicide. This may not be that common of a situation but Michael Voris also interviewed Liz Yore in the video and since she is child advocate for cases like these and she confirms that this is what happens sometimes she gives a lot credence to the video. The very sad thing is that it has become more and more difficult to trust anyone anymore. I always knew that things like this occurred but I honestly didn't think that it was as common as it appears to be. My children are all grown now and I think that I was very cautious with them but I wonder if I was cautious enough sometimes.
I am sorry Carol, I beg to disagree. I know enough of evil without it be put on full display like this. At best it was a gross error of judgement to post this. I cannot even discuss this. It is purely vile. My very best hope is he will apologise and we can let this whole very sorry matter rest. I have no idea whatsoever what he was even thinking of posting this vile material. Would Our Blessed Lady wish him to do such a thing? There's your answer. Dear God what was he even thinking!! I only watched about a minute of it and it made me want to throw up.
Padraig, That's ok, that we disagree. I absolutely see our point too, I really do. I think that I am only recently moving away from being naïve about some of these things and I think if I only read about this I would still have my doubts. The value of the video is that it removes any doubt that this does go on but I do think that there are so many good priests that something like this can be damaging to them and the priesthood and the Church in general. I suppose this is where we are right now and it's not at all easy, that is for certain.
Apart from that last, and rather graphic part of the recording, where we actually hear the priest, actually making the move; I mostly agree with Carol on this. I hope I don't sound callous but, when I see images of aborted babies, I'm horrified, but I seem to be desensitized to those kinds of images, and not have the same reaction that others have when these images. When I saw Bernard Nathanson's "Silent Scream," where he actually shows a pre-born baby being aborted, that really horrified me, and really hit home to me, the true evil of abortion. That's why I'm a big fan of Abby Johnson's "Unplanned" and want myself and others up here in Canada to see it. So I think it's the same thing with this recording, it's more helpful to know and hear exactly how these priests manipulate the vulnerable. While just reading about these events, or hearing someone else read these events suffices to horrify me, I do think it may be helpful to others to hear exactly what's going on behind closed doors.
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I feel for all our good, innocent priests (the vast majority) who need a break from the never ending attacks against them for crimes they had absolutely nothing to do with. And this video will be used as another stick to beat them with. On the other hand, the recording gives an insight into the modus operandi of predator priests and could be helpful to parents of teenage boys because most people wouldn't think to warn their sons against that very clever kind of manipulation - probably because most people aren't as devious or evil as the priest in the recording. Listening to the recording, I was sick to my stomach because it seemed to me that some of what the priest was saying wasn't all that far removed from the type of "inclusive" language we hear from self-styled outreach priests and bishops who, if we're brutally honest, are working to have the Church accept homosexual activity as different but equal to heterosexual marriage. Is not the language used by those priests and bishops a form of preparing young men to be groomed by predators both inside and outside the Church? If the video serves to wake up people in charge of secondary schools and universities to be very, very careful about inviting "gay outreach" priests to give talks to their students, it will have been for the good. Love him or loathe him, Voris deserves credit for refusing to let the powers that be in the Church keep sweeping this problem under the rug. No wonder he, LifeSite News and the Lepanto Institute are so hated by the Cafeteria who spend all their energy attacking them sooner than acknowledge the fact that the problems they are highlighting need to be tackled with more than announcements like "we're sorry and we are doing everything possible to make sure it won't happen again" when in fact there is no proof that they are sorry and less proof that they are doing anything to clean up the seminaries which pass dodgy candidates for priestly ordination. There's still less proof that anything is being done to ensure that homosexualists are not being fast-tracked to the Episcopate or to positions of authority in seminaries. What I don't like about Voris is that any good news reports about the Church are as rare as hen's teeth on Church Militant. May our Blessed Mother fold our good priests in her mantle. May St. Michael protect them, and may the Lord grant them the grace and courage to keep on keeping on.
My only problem with that video was that Voris should have disclaimed right up front with the graphic warning he gave that the vast majority of priests have never taken part in this sort of predatory behavior and that statistically they are under the average compared to other organizations. It needs to be kept in perspective. Not that the Church should be even remotely close to average on such things. It's horrible to witness this I agree but unfortunately I think it is necessary that people understand the methods used to target vulnerable kids by predators both inside the church and out. That guy was textbook and not just for a priest, it's the same game played by those in positions of authority or admiration outside the church also. Barnhardt's video on diabolical narcissism is spot on when it comes to all this.
I agree. There are probably many Catholics who have bought the story that the church hierarchy has been peddling - that the sexual abuse crisis is mainly about pedophilia, and not due to the homosexual predator priests who are being supported and covered up for by their superiors. But there are many who are not aware and cannot believe that such things can happen within the Church. Exactly. This is what Archbishop Vigano's bombshell testimony was about. I quote from his testimony: "Bishops and priests, abusing their authority, have committed horrendous crimes to the detriment of their faithful, minors, innocent victims, and young men eager to offer their lives to the Church, or by their silence have not prevented that such crimes continue to be perpetrated. To restore the beauty of holiness to the face of the Bride of Christ, which is terribly disfigured by so many abominable crimes, and if we truly want to free the Church from the fetid swamp into which she has fallen, we must have the courage to tear down the culture of secrecy and publicly confess the truths we have kept hidden. We must tear down the conspiracy of silence with which bishops and priests have protected themselves at the expense of their faithful, a conspiracy of silence that in the eyes of the world risks making the Church look like a sect, a conspiracy of silence not so dissimilar from the one that prevails in the mafia. “Whatever you have said in the dark ... shall be proclaimed from the housetops” (Lk. 12:3). I laud Michael Voris for having the courage to do this. I pray for him often. May St Michael protect him. +
I like the word you used, Brian: unnecessary. But my definition of that word might be different. Recently, a person I deeply respect suggested to my wife, that she clearly state on her Pro-life, pregnancy website, a presentation of sexual morality. Perhaps such truth is not so dark as what Michael Voris shared, but the idea is similar: if only people realize the truth of the matter, they will turn around. Fifty years ago when natural law and logic were still in vogue, clear sensible presentations were convincing, but now... Fewer and fewer people are rational today: large numbers of voters support parties that legislate abortion, more and more individuals buy into the transgender ideology, satan gets equal footing with God, cheating on tests is common, pornography is rampant, etc... So, no matter how in-your-face Michael is on displaying evil more and more- less and less sticks to the wall. Am I hopeless? No. But I'm beginning to understand: 1 Tim 6:3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, 5 and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. 2 Tim 3:1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of stress. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who make their way into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and swayed by various impulses, 7 who will listen to anybody and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth. I believe we're in a time when only a call to repentance, a call to turn to Christ can reach down into hearts. The depth of spiritual blindness literally scares me. We must depend more on the Holy Spirit, prayer, and fasting. Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!
I woke up this morning and my first thought was about this thread. I thought of the parents whose children committed suicide as a result of the abuse they incurred by this priest. Maybe Michael Voris has brought these parents some peace, if that is possible. I suppose what I am thinking is that we all know that people can be cruel and they'll attempt to place the blame on the victim, even various clergymen have done this in the past. I almost posted the following yesterday. I remember before I began teaching as a catechist I had to go to Virtus training* and one of the things that was stressed was to never let the children go anywhere alone and that I should never be alone with a child. This is a little foggy in my memory banks now because it was several years ago but I do remember this pretty well and they even mentioned CYO coaches should have another adult present during practices, etc. I am simply wondering if the Church can put something in place for the clergy similar to what was requested of the lay people who are volunteering in their parish as either a catechist or a coach, etc. It almost seems obvious to do this. Most people do not have a spiritual director until they are an adult, so mainly I am thinking that no clergy should be meeting with a child or young adult without another adult present. I suppose that this sort of grooming could occur in the confessional but that does not seem very likely to me. I honestly think that if each parish announced to their parishioners that this was required this could greatly reduce these cases and each child should be informed of this also. Maybe I'm being naïve again idk but I'm trying to come up with something that would help make it very difficult for these sort of things to happen. *ref: https://www.virtusonline.org/virtus/
Carol, Your concern in regards to clergy has already been addressed to some degree, at least in my own diocese. If I am counseling a woman or young person, it is to be done "in public." For instance, if privacy is required (a door shut for instance) the door should have a window and an adult should be present in the adjacent room. This cuts both ways. It is to protect the the counselor from false claims of abuse and the one being counseled from abuse. If I fail to do so, a reprimand should follow. Safe in the Father's Arms!
Mario, Thank you for this. I did realize that the Virtus training was for my protection too, absolutely. I also realize that there is only so much that can be done but it is good to hear that certain steps have been taken. It's a crazy world and it is getting crazier all of the time, unfortunately. I think because of the proliferation of all of these things we see in our society, our youth are becoming more and more confused. It is very sad indeed and the idea that they may be mistreated by someone who they reach out to for help is beyond sad. They need to be able to get help and feel safe doing so. Therefore, it is very good to hear that your diocese has taken steps to help insure this. I also want to share another story here. Many years ago when my daughter was going on 11 she joined a swim team, this was around 15 years ago. Shortly after she joined, I attended the parent's meeting and some police officers were there and they were looking for additional statements/complaints about a head coach. This particular coach is around my husband's age and he also was a coach at Catholic HS. It turned out that two families had filed a complaint against the coach for inappropriate behavior towards their high school age children. Since I was new to the team I remember some parents approaching me to let me know that these families did this because they were disgruntle, they did not like the coach because they thought that he favored certain swimmers and not their children. Well, it turned out that the main basis of the complaints were related to the fact that that coaches had a water polo match with the older members of the swim team at the end of the season. I think that the parents had a valid complaint and just the thought of grown men frolicking in a pool with high school aged girls and boys makes me feel a little sick. I was very glad to hear that this would no longer be an end of season activity. My reason for sharing this story is mainly because maybe it will help someone else. I think that we have to use our heads and our voices, we must speak up and protect our children. Thank you again Mario for sharing your experience. *** PS - I think that the Virtus training could benefit every parent and if your diocese does not currently offer it to catechists and coaches, etc., I think that these volunteers should request it. Again, here is the link to their site https://www.virtusonline.org/virtus/ . When I was required to take the training it was all classroom based and I am not sure how it is done now but I think that both classroom and online training would be helpful.
Must watch- This may help you to see that no, Michael Voris has not lost the plot. He is right on the money, in this instance.
E. Michael Jones is interesting on Voris. The former's opinion has led me to approach the latter with some reservations. At the same time, Carol is correct in saying that we shouldn't close our eyes to difficult truths. I think a major part of the problem is the video format. Video communication itself might be a tool of the devil, because in addition to being a vehicle for truth it reveals too much unnecessary, and often titillatory, detail that too easily doubles as occasion for sin. These matters are best dealt with more abstractly in the dry, literary format, as we are doing here, and even in this case, words must be chosen delicately and tastefully and with premeditated caution. The hypocrisy that the video format can carry is exemplified by such television programmes as 'Law and Order, Special Victims Unit', a liberalist drama that, in a virtue-signalling fashion, purports to be a condemnatory expose of sex criminality, but relies for its attraction for a great deal of its audience upon its titillatory and usually perverted content. Its effect is more likely to normalise this behaviour rather than make it unacceptable, in my opinion. I personally avoid the video format. I consider that, no matter how edifying the content, the format has the property of wasting too much of one's time, whereas the written word accompanied by appropriate still pictures, where necessary, gets to the point far quicker and usually with fewer distractions. Then again, impatience is a personal flaw of mine.
