Wars and rumors of wars on the TLM and Summorum Pontificum”?

I’m listening to a YouTube video from Sensus Fidelium “you cannot contain tradition” and I’m gaining a lot of solace. I am not sure who the priest is talking but he is assuring his congregation, that this is not the first time the TLM has been suppressed - but for some unknown reasons he says - it keeps on keeping on.

That makes me very happy even if in my lifetime I am unable to attend another TLM.

 

Key words in Quo Primum are "in perpetuity". In other words "forever."

 

Yes, but no Pope can bind another Pope’s actions going forward. Praetorian posted that canon law on a previous page.
I feel your angst but Pope St Pius V can indeed be overruled by another Pope in matters of discipline, but not in matters of dogma or doctrine.
In perpetuity and forever are binding only to someone of lesser authority than a Pope.

 

I am saddened by all of this. I’m not a TLM communicant but I grieve today for this charism. I never saw this a devisive or detracting to NO. In fact, I’m probably polar opposite to TLM as I’m part of the neo-Catechumenal Way charism. I was struggling in my parish and through thus charism have been strengthened in my faith. I don’t see these charisms as creating division but actually unity and making Church stronger. Just like a family - there are different “personalities” and sometimes we may have our differences but in end we are there for each other serving first our Lord and then each other. Its very pro-life and its seminaries are filled to the brim. I’m hoping this charism is not next on list.

I do know all will be well. We are in stormy seas but we know how this all ends

 

Very good take on this…it’s possible. The only thing I personally know for sure is this…
The gates of hell will not prevail…God wins no matter what the Vatican or any pope says or does. Our faith is not determined by what they do. It’s determined by what we do. Neither the pope or the Vatican has ANY power over what we believe if we know our faith. We are in charge of our own destiny in relation to our eternity if we know the truth, pray and sacrifice for those who don’t, we have no worries. They on the other hand most certainly should have worries.
The bottom line…..GOD WINS! No worries

 

Well, let’s console ourselves with the possibility ( not likely) that this current pope will be replaced with another who will overturn him… ( kind of like a USA presidential “executive order”) . With God, all things are possible! Keep the faith( the real faith)!

 

“We are in stormy seas but we know how this all ends”…yes indeed miker!

 

How wonderful, David, that you have clergy nearby so devoted to Our Lady!

Safe Under Mary's Mantle!

 

Thank you so much, Mario! We are indeed fortunate to have such wonderful, holy priests in Preston.

 

Now there's a positive outlook!

Romans 8:28 We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.

Jesus, we trust in Thee!

 

Yes but as HH said read the other link I posted. It is explained in there.

 

I really like this post.

 

I'm not sure Quo Primum is a mere changeable document dealing with mere discipline.

 

Well I am going with that. Popes can bind and loose. The Mass has been changed many times throughout the history of the Church. Certain things about it can be changed. This does not mean that I like what just happened.

 

God's Divine Will Be Done with this.....I am merely His servant.....

 

A motu proprio is a personal act of a Pope but not infallible. The Bull Quo Primum of Pope St. Pius V is an infallible act following on from an infallible council (Trent). That is why no pope can abrogate the Tridentine rite.

 

The various rites of the Church are a matter of discipline. They can be changed. Just go back and look at how many times the Latin Mass was changed since that Papal Bull came out.

In fact, after he published Quo Primum, Pope St. Pius V changed the Mass yet again, clearly showing it could be changed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quo_primum

And in that same article it notes that he explicitly laid out who could not change the Mass and listed everyone up to the level of cardinal, but not including future popes:

"...he forbade alterations by other authorities, ecclesiastical or civil, or by private individuals. He gives a list of ecclesiastical dignitaries who, he says, may not alter his Missal, even of the level of cardinal ("each and every patriarch, administrator, and all other persons or whatever ecclesiastical dignity they may be, be they even cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, or possessed of any other rank or pre-eminence"), but does not include those of a higher level, that is popes."

From EWTN:
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/li...essors-from-changing-the-tridentine-mass-1132

In any case Pope Francis did not abrogate the Tridentine rite. If he did no priest would be allowed to say it anymore, but that is not the case. He said it may still be said with restrictions.

 

I read the most beautiful story on the subject of Obedience to Church Authority a few days ago.

St Louis Grignion De Montford had a Calvary built at Pont Chateau, France. The Cross on top of the hill with the Stations. Thousands of poor peasants worked away at it and it took several weeks.

Then the local Bishop ordered him and directed him to demolish it.

The saint argued his case, the Bishop stood his ground.

The saint went back and told the folks to tear it all down.

He said, 'Build a Calvary in your hearts'.

Well then, let us build a Latin Mass in our hearts if need be.

 

Encouraging words, miker; well said!

Safe in the Two Hearts!

 

Excellent points Padraig. It is easy to be obedient when the authority above us is doing what we feel to be the right thing. Much harder when we feel they are not.

No Catholics have ever had to face the sort of confusion we are facing now. The Arian crisis being the closest, but still I think, not near the chaos we are living through. They had one heresy to deal with, we have many.