Wars and rumors of wars on the TLM and Summorum Pontificum”?

I am glad Cardinal Sarah spoke out. We need more support.

 

Thanks everyone for praying for my daughter.

Covid symptoms are done.
It was very mild.
Yes, she was previously vaccinated.

Unlike my buddy who died 3 weeks after getting covid and was not vaccinated and had no co-morbidities.

I know most on the forum didn't want to hear that. But it is the truth.

We each have to weigh the risk and make our own decision.

 

Thank God your daughter is well.

 

I’m very glad she has recovered.

 

I am so glad your daughter is well and yes the vax does make a difference in severity for many people thanks be to God.

 

I am glad to hear your daughter is doing better! In my mind there is no issue with someone’s decision to be vaccinated or not. I’m glad it was able to assist her in getting better

I didn’t know about your friend dying I will pray for his soul

Be sure to remember to take care of yourself as well as caring for others!

 

Thank you all!

 

Yes, it is a shame that they attempted to excommunicate Archbishop Lefebvre, through no fault of his own. Fortunately, Pope Benedict reversed this excommunication attempt.
The more time passes, the more I see that Archbishop Lefebvre as a true prophet. He defended the Traditional Latin Mass because he foresaw that weakening the liturgy would weaken the faith (lex orandi, lex credendi). He resisted pressure and chose disobedience, some say in a state of emergency and out of necessity. This is questionable, and up to last year I used to be skeptical of him and of the Society he founded.
This has changed. I think Archbishop Lefebvre was right, akin to a prophet. We only need to look at what is going on in the Church now.

 

They didn't "attempt to excommunicate" Lefebvre.. He automatically excommunicated himself according to the laws of the Church when he consecrated bishops without Rome's permission. And unless I'm mistaken, Pope Benedict did not lift Lefebvre's excommunication; he lifted that of the bishops Lefebvre consecrated.

Now, as far as Lefebvre's own conscience and whether he truly believed what he was doing was right... I won't argue against that. But objectively speaking, when the Pope (John Paul II) tells you you do not have permission to consecrate bishops, he is NOT commanding you to sin, so you are disobeying the authority God put in place over you. I do not believe that God uses disobedience to bring about good fruits. If the Latin Mass has survived and is God's Will, it is not because of Lefebvre's disobedience; it's in spite of it.

https://www.vatican.va/content/john...jp-ii_motu-proprio_02071988_ecclesia-dei.html

 

well said, PF.
Everything you said is true. Our Church is a hierarchy. Archbishop Lefebvre excommunicated himself.

 

There will always be people who want
to bolt from the Barque. Sometimes nothing we say or post will convince them to stay.

 

You’ve proven my point.

 

The pope cannot be the gates of hell.

 

I was truly impressed by his labor of love in the African mission field and his efforts at Vatican II! Those are worth emulating. The movie, however, seemed to promote the idea that his pattern of sanctity and orthodoxy produced fruit that justifies and/or exceeds the negative consequences of his disobedience. We will never know what would have occurred if he had accepted the offer of one bishop.

Lord, save Your Church! We're taking on water and we're about to capsize!

Mark 4:36 And leaving the crowd, they took him with them in the boat, just as he was. And other boats were with him. 37 And a great storm of wind arose, and the waves beat into the boat, so that the boat was already filling. 38 But he was in the stern, asleep on the cushion; and they woke him and said to him, "Teacher, do you not care if we perish?" 39 And he awoke and rebuked the wind, and said to the sea, "Peace! Be still!" And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. 40 He said to them, "Why are you afraid? Have you no faith?"

 

I always feel that he acted prematurely. You are right, we won’t know this side of the veil.

 

Protestantism all over again.

 

File photo of Pope Francis celebrating Mass on 29 June 2021 (AFP or licensors)
Pope Francis: ‘Liturgy needs to return to center of Christian faith’
Pope Francis sends greetings to participants in an Italian liturgical conference, and says last year’s Covid-lockdown can help the Church rediscover the importance of the Sunday Eucharistic assembly.

By Devin Watkins

As part of the 71st National Liturgical Week, Italian clergy and laypeople are gathered in the northern city of Cremona for a conference organized by the Center for Liturgical Action.

Pope Francis kicked off the 4-day event with a message signed by Cardinal Secretary of State Pietro Parolin.

In his message, the Pope thanked God that the conference could be held this year in-person, “following last year’s disheartening moment” caused by the pandemic.

“The painful decision to postpone the event,” said the Pope, “has however confirmed in a new light the chosen theme which seeks to deepen reflection on various aspects of ‘celebrating’, which was put to the test by the spread of Covid-19 and the necessary restrictions to contain it.”

Liturgy and Christian identity
The conference’s theme to which the Pope was referring is “Where two or three are gathered in my name”: Community, liturgies, and territories.

He noted that Christians have always come together weekly in Jesus’ name, an act which is closely tied to the Church’s identity.

However, he lamented, weekly Masses were “harshly limited during the most acute phase of the pandemic.”

“Yet, love for the Lord and pastoral creativity pushed pastors and lay faithful to experiment with new ways to nourish the communion of faith and love with the Lord and our brothers and sisters, in the expectation of returning to the fullness of the Eucharistic celebration in safety and tranquility.”

Lockdowns worsened existing trend
Pope Francis said last year’s “liturgical fast” was painful, but also illuminated by the mystery of the Cross of Christ and was made fruitful by many “works of charity, fraternal love, and service to those who suffered the most.”

Privation from the Mass, he added, has led the Church to reflect on the importance of the liturgy in the lives of Christians, since “we must also pray with the body.”

The shutdown of churches also highlighted a trend already underway on the Italian peninsula which has seen declining Mass attendance among certain age groups.

“We observe that people’s perception of time and Sunday itself has changed, with consequences on ways of living and feeling part of a community, people, and family,” he said. “The Sunday assembly is therefore misbalanced in terms of generational and cultural presence”.

Mass at center of faith
The Pope then expressed his hope that the liturgical conference might enkindle new ideas and pastoral guidelines to offer to parishes throughout Italy.

“May Sunday, the Eucharistic assembly, the ministries, and the rite emerge from the marginalization toward which they seem to tend inexorably, while rediscovering the centrality of faith and spirituality of the faithful,” he prayed.

Pope Francis concluded his message assuring his prayers for the Church in Italy as it seeks to keep Christ at the center of its liturgical life.
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/...-message-italian-71st-liturgy-conference.html

 

I wonder how many churches will even entertain the notion of a shared liturgy and unity of worship.

 

I wouldn’t underestimate how easily people are led to the slaughter for the sake of the “common good”. Maybe a fundamentalist conflict would convince them to put religious differences aside.

https://peterdarcywriting.com/wp-co...er-and-Form-of-the-Seven-Sacraments_Darcy.pdf