Wars and rumors of wars on the TLM and Summorum Pontificum”?

Well, I kind of suspected this to happen, but Taylor Marshall instructed Traditionalists to explore other Latin Mass communities and/or societies. Why? So that if one of the fraternities is suppressed you have an escape clause. Then he, in effect, dissed all Novus Ordo Masses (calling them "clown, puppet, or balloon Masses). Taylor has a lot of influence and he just laid all his cards on the table, implying all Novus Ordo Masses are too toxic to attend.

Very sad and too divisive for me, Mr. Marshall.

Pax vobiscum.

 

Yes, that's the kind of approach that loses support from those of us who attend reverently offered NO Masses. It's the kind of attitude that helped give supporters of the TLM a reputation for being holier than thou snobs. It sets them up as legitimate targets for people like Michael Lofton. Marshall makes some valid points and then undermines his position when it would be better if he backed off and cooled down.

That said, I saw a comment from someone on another website asking which is preferable: a reverently offered but illicit TLM or an irreverently offered and illicit NO? I don't believe that very many people are faced with that kind of choice but it is a valid question. How would you answer that question? I wouldn't know how to answer.

 

I said that all SSPX Masses are illicit ( on this thread.) Then someone said that most NO Masses are illicit but no link was provided to substantiate that claim. That might be just an opinion. The point is that the SSPX is not canonically connected to to the Barque. No amount of spin can make it so.

 

Matthew 16:18

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

Contains everything that we need to know.

 

Please pray the novena suggested by the Superior of the FSSP which Byron posted above.

 

It's on p. 55 of this thread. The FSSP Superior asked for the decade of the rosary daily, (the Descent of the Holy Spirit,) the prayer of St. Joseph for the Universal Church, and to pray three times, St. Peter, pray for us. It was started last Sunday on the Feast of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. And he asked for prayers for the Pope. He also entreated us to stay in the Barque. It would be great if everyone could go back to p. 55 of this thread and read and treasure his entreaties.

 

This is simply not true. They are not schismatic either.

 

We remain true to the Faith, inside the Church. Obedience in all things but sin. We all are being sifted. I think that the FSSP Superior recognises that and knows the pitfalls of separating from the barque. Some in the FSSP have been there, done that. In the end, it's about trust in God's promise to the Church.

 

It is true. Very true. No local Bishop, or any Bishop canonically in union with the Catholic Church has authorized any of their Masses to be said. Without authorization, all Masses are illicit. Please look it up.

 

Let me ask you this: how can they be not connected to the barque of Peter if the pope himself gave them faculties to hear confession and witness marriages?

This is such a delicate and unique situation, painting in broad strokes does a disservice here.

 

People say all sorts of things. My question was about a rare situation where a person is faced with a choice on Sunday. His options are an illicit but reverently offered SSPX or an illicit, irreverently offered NO. I did make it clear that not many people will be faced with that dilemma.

My own thinking on it is to choose the NO hoping that this one time nothing illicit will happen at the Mass. Then the question is whether to remain while illicit practices take place. Some would say the answer is to remain and pray. Others would say that not leaving is to participate in the illicit acts.

My own speculation on the SSPX is that Pope Francis will do whatever it takes to restore them to canonical regularity. The way he has operated thus far suggests that will likely happen as he approves inter Communion with Lutherans and puts no restrictions on what kind of Lutheran minister "consecrates" the bread and wine he will encourage us to share in the name of Christian unity.

 

1. There is no doubt about the validity of the ordination of the priests of the Society of St. Pius X. They are, however, suspended a divinis, that is prohibited by the Church from exercising their orders because of their illicit ordination.

2. The Masses they celebrate are also valid, but it is considered morally illicit for the faithful to participate in these Masses unless they are physically or morally impeded from participating in a Mass celebrated by a Catholic priest in good standing (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 844.2). The fact of not being able to assist at the celebration of the so-called "Tridentine" Mass is not considered a sufficient motive for attending such Masses.
https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/status-of-society-of-st-pius-x-masses-2219

 

You are refusing to see the light of the fact that the local Bishops are empowered to authorize who says Mass in their diocese. Say what you will.

 

Yes, that is true, but it does not cover the Mass issue, and you know it. And I do, as well.

 

I never said anything about the mass issue. I was cautioning against making blanket statements which are overreaching.

The SSPX are Catholic and have some faculties for the sacraments. Are there some issues to iron out between them and Rome? Yes. But the conclusion should not be that we assume they are heretics.

 

That doesn't address the question I asked, having seen it raised on another website. It is unlikely that most of us will ever face such a choice but it is very possible that people in parts Germany face it every Sunday.

 

Who said anything about heretics? I simply declared the fact that all of their Masses are illicit and you want to jump in. I stand by what I said. This thread is about the Mass. Spin away.