All I know is that your soul is in your own keeping. You cannot blame bad Popes, or even heretical Popes for why you end up in Hell. Your choices are your choices. You are not alone in your decision-making process; you have the Holy Spirit and a Guardian Angel. That is sufficient for Salvation. All this doom and gloom stuff just creates psychological imbalance and weak mindedness, past the point of conversion and repentance. If you are past that point in your spiritual life, at least from my point of view you have an obligation to yourself to build a better self, each and every day. Remember you cannot say I was moved by this man or that man at the judgment of God, for that will not suffice. No King, no Ruler, no Pope, President nor Priest can save your soul, so too are they not responsible for the decisions you make regarding your final destination.
Well, now there are rumors that Francis didn't read that speech, instead calling it 'boring' and asking the seminarians to ask him questions (I think this refers to the same speech). I don't know how reliable this blog is, but, from what I can tell, it's the source of several other reports: https://germinansgerminabit.blogspot.com/2022/12/lo-que-dijo-y-lo-que-no-el-papa-los.html
By saying human being, but possibly "not a person" does this gives flexibility to allow pro-aborts to be given positions in the Pontifical Academy for Life? Lord have Mercy!
Henri, You are absolutely correct but I believe that the concern is for those who are not as well formed in the Faith as you are. In addition, if drastic changes are made then consider what happens in 20 years from now but we were told the gates of hell…
That’s all well and good, but let me pose a concrete, quite personal example. My parents were told by their pastors in the 1960s that it was OK to contracept. My own mom once quipped that all five of us siblings were the products of failed birth control. When my youngest sibling came along when my mom was in her early forties, her pastor at that time told her it was OK to get her tubes tied after my sister was born. Onviously the pastors committed the graver sin in giving such recommendations. But contraception and sterilization are still mortal sins. A day before he died, I was having a quiet conversation with my dad. He asked me, “Is there anything I should know?” I felt I was guided at the time to bring up this subject. He replied, “That wasn’t my idea. That was your mother’s.” Now my mom is 87 and living with my sister, who has left the Faith for evangelical Pentecostal Christianity, and the only time my mom gets to mass on Sundays is when I’m up visiting. I’ve encouraged her to go to confession numerous times but she doesn’t feel she needs to and hasn’t in years. And she’s never regretted the practice of contraception in her marriage and has encouraged it among her own children. Including me. She won’t be with us much longer. How will God see this, if what you say is true?
And not to put too fine a point on it, what happens when millions of faithful are told by this pope “not to breed like rabbits”? Yes, a pope can indeed lead souls to perdition.
I feel your pain here. In speaking to a friend and former co-worker not long ago, we had a similar discussion about some "things" we knew were wrong. Her response was "but Lois, it's what we were taught". She wasn't saying well who are you to say that's wrong, she was going with what she was told, and believed, to be true. I don't see how one can convince anyone stuck in that mindset...Maybe have some Masses offered for your mom now ~ It's said one Mass offered for the soul while still alive in this world is worth many more than those offered after they've passed...(can't remember where that comes from) And entrust her to God's Mercy.......
As I said only partially in jest previously, someone else wrote that speech and now we learn it was too Catholic for him to even stomach reading. No surprises there.
If all we needed for salvation was the Holy Spirit and a Guardian Angel I don't know why Christ gave us seven sacraments and told his followers to spread it to the ends of the earth. The Holy Spirit is conferred on us through the sacraments mainly. Many Catholic believers in the Communion of Saints, a credo, pray and sacrifice for the conversion of their families, and likewise depend on the intercession of Saints for them and on the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. They don't view themselves as isolated individuals. Many in the clerical state have done appalling things, but we still need clerics as vehicles to convey Grace. I realise in the sixties Jesus was reinterpreted as a sort of a hippy with no rules but modern knowledge places many of his initial followers as very strict essenes, as was very likely St. John the Baptist. See John Bergsma's book: 'Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls.' Throws a lot of light on the continuation of a 'true' branch of Judaism into Christianity. St. John and the essene movement had 'made the paths straight' and purified a cohort of Jews so that they were fertile soil for the seed that Jesus was coming to sow. BTW there is also good insight into all the St. Paul writings and what he probably actually means by 'rules' which don't give life and don't save versus St. Paul simultaneously being very dogmatic in saying, for example, that fornicators, sodomites and drunkards will not enter Heaven. The Pope is meant to be an actual father. If a father leads a young child astray from its earliest formation there is a word for that:- Abuse.
I think I agree with Henri when he says your soul is in your own keeping. “Seek and ye shall find, Knock and it shall be opened to you.” I knew an elderly lady who was taught by nuns in Louisiana in the 1910-1920 ish decade. They taught that God judges people according to their lights. I believe this was on Bayou Lafourche.
Hi HeavenlyHosts. Do you realize that the Magisterium of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church does not agree with what the "elderly lady who was taught by nuns in Louisiana in the 1910-1920ish decade" said those nuns taught. Shouldn't we stick to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or even better the Catechism of Trent? The Church has always taught what Logos said above. The Protestants have taught what Henri said. Why would you "agree with Henri?"
That's very relieving, HH. As none of my children were catechised at all properly at their 'Catholic' schools and as Pope Francis and much of the Hierarchy are telling them all sorts of behaviour are permissable and excusable, I can stop praying and sacrificing for, and worrying about, them as sure they're going to be judged by their lights anyway:- which aren't much. That South American priest who likes the ayawausca ( sp) and never baptised a convert in 40 yrs is probably wise not to bother himself, sure the less they know the less lights they'll have to be judged by. But I disagree. The Truth is our duty to spread. It is known as 'The great Commission,' nuns at my school used to talk about such things. Pope Francis has been given that Great Commission in an even more awesome way - he will be answerable for how he has fulfilled it. Sometimes there is a tendency when we disagree with someone about one thing to jump to disagree with them about everything; but I find that I agree/ disagree with the same people on different occasions. It can be fun to read a post without looking at the name.
Aren't parents supposed to be the first educators of their children? Yes? And if the parents received a poor education, or perhaps a good one which suddenly and abruptly they were told was "no longer necessary", well are the children to be condemned because of this? How many generations are we now without solid clear teaching across the board, or "Barque"? The one great blessing of the internet has been access to good Catholic teaching, if one takes the time to seek it out, and develops good discernment while wading thru some of the fever swamps out there. Thank you PNF & Logos. I have way more trust in God's Merciful love than I thought.
I thought this thread was about Pope Francis. Henri stated he believes an Institutional Church to be unnecessary; I don't. I believe more is required to get us to the Beatific Vision than our Guardian Angels and a free-floating 'Holy Spirit' which operates outside the Church which Christ founded. I deduce that there is hostility to anyone who disagreed with a particular point of view on another thread. That doesn't bother me. It's not my issue. I am well able to function outside an echo-chamber and am too long in the tooth to let sarcasm do anything else than run off me. If we could all just fight the argument and not the man, as PNF does so well. Hats off to him!
