Is there a fake Pope Francis?

I'll say this. People have a choice to stay here or to leave. I myself have been prompted to stay, if for no other reason than to learn humility, along with growing a much thicker skin when it comes to comments such as this.

I'll take what you say about the Church in Ireland at face value because I don't have the will or time to do further research right now. Point to you.

As for PNF, he appeared to speak with some authority, which he actually did not have. This, along with a lack of tact, imo, is why he was questioned in regard to his statements. In the intercourse I myself had with him, he admitted there was a very subtle distinction to be made on the topic at hand, but he never stated he had erred in what he was so authoritatively stating as fact. During that convo I stated clearly that I was not a scholar, a canon lawyer or a theologian. I felt as if I was getting my head knocked off, and to find later that PNF was none of those things either gave the impression he had been misleading people as regards his authority. If that was not the case I apologize, but in a forum such as this one can only go by the impressions made by one's writing style.

I've said my peace here. May the Lord's peace be with your good self and with PNF.

Edited to add: Most of my ancestors who came here from Ireland came because they were unable to practice their faith. If that's not "cut off", I don't know what is.

 

Let’s say I didn’t which I am not saying I don’t, but hypothetically let’s say I didn’t. Then what? The judgements, the labels of heresy, the feelings of superiority, the condemnation etc. let’s review some miracles shall we. Miracle of lanciano - disbelieving priest. Miracle of Galgano sword - ruthless knight miracle of the bent sword and bleeding heart painting - man upset who was gambling in a church who stabbed Jesus in the heart , Longinus eyes healed by stabbing Jesus in the heart. I don’t pretend to be anything I am not, which is a sinner. So everybody wants to judge Pope Francis, it would not be unlike God to do a massive miracle for him just to humble everyone else. What I believe is really no one’s concern. I am okay with where I am in my life and my past, and the direction that I am headed. The god in your mind is not the mind of God, the same is true of the Church. That which you conceive the Church to be is not the Church. Or is that to Taoist of a thought for you?

 

Hi Josephite. Context matters. HeavenlyHost's comment was a response to Henri's comment. I will provide both:

Then HeavenlyHosts said the following in response to that exact quote:

Read Henri's original comment carefully. He is essentially saying that we don't need to care what "a Pope" does or says. Why? Because, he says "Your choices are your choices" and "the Holy Spirit and a Guardian Angel" are "sufficient for Salvation."

Sorry, no. As Catholics, if "the Pope" were to declare dogmatically that same-sex marriages were Sacramental marriages, we need to pay attention to this type of thing. Some people would feel compelled to assent to that error because the Catholic Church teaches that the Extraordinary Magisterium in binding on all Catholics. This [to declare that same-sex marriages are Sacramental] is a grave deception and precisely what is warned about in 2 Thessalonians 2.

Then HeavenlyHosts uses her anecdote about some nuns to support Henri's comment. Whatever HeavenlyHosts meant by her comment, I can only gather that she connected the essence of what Henri was saying to the essence of what the nuns were saying. If the nuns were saying essentially the same thing the Henri was saying, then what the nuns were saying is not Catholic. I'm not sure that "the elderly lady" or "the nuns" would agree with Henri. I doubt it. But HeavenlyHosts thought they did. I was responding to HeavenlyHosts' interpretation of the nuns comment.

Bottom line (going back to Henri's comment): What the Pope (the legitimate Pope) says, in certain contexts, is binding on Catholics. So it is critical that we, as Catholics, know who the legitimate Pope is and are not deceived any an antipope masquerading as "the Pope" and leading, like the pied piper, many Catholics into perdition.

 

Don’t put words in my mouth. Explain to me what you mean by this “official church” that’s like saying Orthodox miracles aren’t real because they don’t obey the Pope. God is superior to our limited human conceptions.

 

My old man was very wise he said worry about yourself because a drowning man cannot save another drowning man.

 

I’ll make it very clear for everyone. I am done with politics. World politics and church politics. God respects my free will and I am picking my battles, and those just aren’t my battles. If anybody wants to lead the crusade to restore Christendom and you choose that to be your battle, who am I to tell you what to do, but as for me, I don’t care. I am almost 40 years old, and I want to build a better life for myself over the next decade. That is my battle. That is my choice.

 

Totally true.
It somewhat relates to the Scripture about the
Beam, splinter.
I like your father's saying.

 

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Thank you Ann. I may take a break from time to time but I’m not leaving because of a disagreement on a particular subject.

Sometimes my posts are well researched for whatever that is worth because many times we are just reading someone else’s opinion and sometimes my posts are just my own opinion. I try to seek the truth though and maintain my honesty, as I hope that others here are doing also and for the most part I believe that they are.

 

Exactly, Carole, no need for dramatic public rebukes of exasperation. The other party is also putting up with seemingly endless replies.

 

I posted this in support of you, Henri. You are a new member, and you have been accepted onto this forum. You have been on your Journey and God has fashioned your cross to suit you.

Jeremiah 29:11
11 For I know the thoughts that I think towards you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of affliction, to give you an end and patience.

12 And you shall call upon me, and you shall go: and you shall pray to me, and I will hear you.

13 You shall seek me, and shall find me: when you shall seek me with all your heart.

 

You misunderstood. I was supporting your post, Henri.

Everyone on this forum is free to post "likes" without being thought of as belonging to a clique.
On the other hand, each one of us has a right to avoid posting a response if we choose not to get involved. I can't see where it can be simplified to cliques or ostracizing. It's just the dynamic.

As an aside, many of us have formed friendships with members on this forum through our long-standing associations. Everyone on this forum is free to do that. or not.

 

Yes. I agree Carol. Good will is and has been a mark of forum members right along.

 

Henri, do you mean when I used the term 'formal Church'?
I mean that I believe Christ founded a formal, Sacramental Church with authority to bind and loose given to Peter and his true successors. Priests are an integral part of this and therefore impossible to 'keep away from.'
By the way, I have no doubt that you are an earnest and seeking person. I am making no judgement of your soul in case that is what you think! I have enough to do to look after my own.
But I am neither blind nor stupid. Human beings are hard-wired to notice patterns; it is how we have developed. Therefore when I see a particular pattern repeating over and over I can't pretend not to see it and your posts are thus part of a bigger picture. I think you / your posts have been used as a pawn by others who do not truly believe in your less formal brand of Christianity but try to piggy back on your posts inorder to niggle at particular posters: namely PNF and myself. No problem to me, but ..........

 

That's an example, Lois - it's not about 'points'.
You don't have to take what I say about Ireland at 'face value', it's factual that most Irish fled to other places due to the famine, poverty and political persecution. Religion for Catholics, unlike the presbyterians and Pilgrim fathers, was not a prime cause of emigration. Strange that your Catholic forbears fled because of that; or maybe it's just what you have surmised.
Exactly what I said. Some people didn't like PNF making what he saw as a defence of proper handling of Our Blessed Lord and they began to circle. They didn't confine their digs to one thread but followed him around to other threads to 'give him what for', and let him know he was on his own and isolated. PNF, to my reading of it, was obeying one of the duties of the Spiritual Acts of Charity in advising someone when he thought the action was wrong. He never called anyone a 'sinner.' That is a different thing. He never claimed to have any particular authority and openly disclaimed any when asked. He was on no occasion 'bitchy', sly nor sarcastic despite considerable provocation from various quarters.
Horses for courses. I myself prefer an open, informative, polite, non-emotive,factual style to that of umbrage, sarcasm and unfairness.

 

Exactly. Barbs and disputations are not Christian and PNF, and others before him, should not have had to tolerate them.

 

As a long time observer I have to disagree. I have been shocked at some of the behaviour. Bullying does not always involve bad language or outright rudeness. Sometimes it is much more subtle. It is not the behaviour of all, but certainly some.