I am posting this thread, mainly because I have some questions and would appreciate some discussion. I also don't want to take away from other threads.
Here is the issue. In Revelation 20:1-3 it is stated that the devil is chained and put in the abyss. Revelation 12 has already passed according to the timeline given in the book of Revelation if Revelation 20:1-3 has already happened, which is what the church teaches. In fact, since the church teaches that Revelation 20:1-3 has happened, it means that everything up to and including Revelation 20:1-3 has also already happened as indicated by the following verse. Revelation 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and [e]brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. The beast and false prophet are already in the lake of fire if we believe we are in the 1000 year reign of Christ. As well satan is locked up. So how can we currently be influenced by satan if he is bound in chains in the abyss? Yes we are still sinners, no question there. It's not the question I have. I also have heard respected exorcists state that they have dealt with Satan during exorcism sessions. As well, I have reason to believe that satan has been influencing the nations since Jesus died on the cross up to the current day. Also, there were no chapter and verse delineations when the Book of Revelation was written. It was one big text. Revelation 20:1 begins with "Then I saw an Angel" which further indicates that the beast and the false prophet are already in the lake of fire because it happened just prior to the "Then" of Rev 20:1, meaning everything previous to 20:1 has already happened.
Thank you for bringing up this interesting topic. I am no expert at all in this field, so just sharing my two cents. I doubt that the highly mystical book of the Apocalypse can be interpreted based on a linear timeline. One has to keep in mind that time exists only in our material universe. God himself, angels and demons, heaven and hell, are all outside of time. It does not appear to me that Satan is currently locked up. Instead, he seems to be going rampant. The vision on Patmos which prompted St. John to write the Apocalypse may have been given to him in a seemingly linear timeline. However, it was a vision, so it should be interpreted spiritually, and linear timelines simply fail here, perhaps. As a similar example, the dying often experience so-called Near Death Experiences (NDE). This phenomenon has been examined scientifically. People often describe a life-review, where all their actions including the effects on others are shown to the dying person as a kind of film. After successful resuscitation, the person who experienced an NDE often struggles to describe how long the life-review lasted. They something like: "It felt like three minutes, but at the same time it felt like 85 years or so, I cannot really say." This, to me, corroborates my understanding that there is no time 'on the other side'. I think this understanding should also be applied to mystical experiences, including prophecy. This is why it is so difficult to interpret, for example, Marian apparitions and prophecy. One cannot easily come up with a timeline of the prophesised events. I take a similar view regarding the book of Revelation/Apocalypse. It is very hard to interpret it literally and come up with a sort of timeline, in my opinion. In short - I am not sure. But it is certainly an interesting topic. Thank you again for bringing it up. God bless!
This is a very interesting point, especially since there is a lot of symbolism in the book. As well it adds some flavor to the discussion. Which I very much like. I am curious as to what parts of the book you do not think will necessarily flow in order as they were revealed. Still, the church has positioned herself according to the interpretation of St. Augustine, that we are living in the millennium of Christ. Which I currently don't believe any more as there are too many contradictions for me that have not been explained. I think there are something like 30-40 that I have seen personally. I also lean more towards a linear timeline of sequential events in Revelation because that's what was revealed. I mean it moves around a bit, but those parts where it moves are easy to see. Also, I think we get a blessing just for holding onto the book and another for reading it. Which to me is encouragement from God to actually understand the book, which if it was non-linear we wouldn't be able to do. However! I do think much of the book is currently locked from us until the time is right, at which point God unlocks it. One of the very interesting things about a possible future 1000 year reign of Christ is that it would tie in with the 7 days of Creation. Where we are currently 6000 years from Adam and the final 1000 year reign of Christ would be associated with the day of Rest. Which could be the period of peace everyone is alluding to in private revelation. On an interesting side note, many are having dreams of Christ's return, including Katfalls. The only place in Revelation I could find which might work is in Revelation 14:14-16 and Revelation 19:5-10, which I think are parallel tellings of the same event. The wedding of the Lamb being also the great harvest. Which happens before the beginning of the 1000 year reign of Christ and after the fall of the whore of Babylon in terms of the order of Revelation.
I am about to go out with my kids - I hope to be able to read your posting thoroughly and then reply to you more properly at some point. The short answer is: I am very little clued up about the book of Revelation/Apocalypse. I would follow the teaching position of the Holy Catholic Church. My (limited) understanding is that we are in fact living in the time of the Apocalypse. This has been made clear through Fatima. Other people here on this beloved forum may have a much better understanding of the book of Apocalypse. God bless!!
I agree we are in the time of Revelation as well for the same reasons. Even further, in regards to "the warning" Garabandal, I believe this could be a final mercy which happens before the "great harvest" of Revelation 14:14-16. The following verses after Revelation 14:14-16 refer to the wine press of God's great wrath, which I believe parallels Revelation 19:17,18 which parallels Matthew 24:28 & Luke 17:37. I think we are approaching this. I should also mention that while the church's official position is that of amillennialism, it is not Catholic dogma, nor is doctrine limited to only amillennialism. The church allows for a broad range of views on this topic such as pre-millennialism. Not to be confused with dispensationalism.
A thousand years is interpreted as an eternal period, according to the Catholic Church. "Our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the spirits that fill the air." St. Paul.
Thank you once again! I do not know enough about these topics to provide anything substantial. I just wanted to point out that interpreting the book of Apocalypse is hard, but I guess this goes without saying, actually. God bless!
I am not up to speed with the Book of Revelation either. In fact it is the only Book of the New Testament I have not read. Of course I have over the years read on this forum and watched various videos dealing with various aspects of it in a disjointed and haphazard way. But I want to finish the Old Testament first. Sam Shamoun says to avoid reading the Apocalypse until you have mastered the Old Testament and the Gospels, Epistles etc. He says one will not understand what certain phrases are referring to and their proper context unless you have read those. Having said that, as a complete novice, I just naturally imbibed a certain view of where we are in the eschatological time scale. I am presuming that the thousand years reign is later on corresponding to the era of peace, the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. In my view and preceding that era, the Anti-Christ has yet to appear before he is defeated and chained up for a thousand years. He then returns again before the coming of Christ. I don't think the beasts are cast out yet either. This would I think be consistent with Fr. Gobbi's Blue Book revelations from Our Lady. Freemasonry etc. is still very much running riot in a widely pervasive infiltration of the powers ruling the earth.
One book that I would recommend to help anyone understand certain passages in the Apocalypse is the Mystical City of God by Ven. Mary of Agreda. She has a few chapters on what was revealed to her concerning the true meaning of the Apocalypse, especially chapters 12 and 21.
The book of Revelation has many parallel verses with the rest of the Bible which is why a person needs to have an understanding of the Old Testament. The following website points them out. It is quite amazing to see just how in depth Revelation is with these parallel verses. It's like taking a journey throughout the bible. https://www.way.org.il/revelation-crossreference Revelation is incredibly crafted. I believe we both share a similar view.
This is an allegorical view point, something that St. Augustine was fond of. Allegory does exist throughout scripture, however it is not limited only to allegory. One of the supernatural aspects of the Bible is that many things can exist at the same time. It can be prophetic, allegorical, literal and historical all at the same time.
The devil was released for a period of 100 years from hell to test the Church and was permitted great power in doing so. This was around the time when modern Marian apparitions started. He is still at it and has gained control of the Vatican with two false Popes under his belt. However he is just about to get his neck broken. But first the Tribulation and the Period of Peace which you mention. This time period you describe is fully mentioned in chapters 12 to 13 of the Book of the Apocalypse. this vision of Pope Leo is why the false present Pope Leo is called Leo. They are declaring they won the bet. That the Church is fallen. But of course they are very much mistaken. They only own the leadership not the little ones, the sheep.
I will study these chapters tonight according to your insights, then ask you questions if I have any. I think this could be very fruitful.
Pray and do Penance that the Holy Spirit may give you light. Discernment is not only about using the head but using the heart. Of asking God to guide you/. I find this is why folks are so confused at the moment. They are simply not trusting and asking God to give them light. Certainly ask your sisters and brothers but ask the Holy Spirit first. But if you ask beg God for the grace to listen. There are so very,very,very few who do this in our dark times.# The Cardinals in the conclave this year clearly did not do this. They already decided for a false Pope even before they got into the place. \\\even the best of them weren't very hot.
The conclave itself is already a "temporary monastic enclosure", but I have often wondered whether one day the entire structure of the College of Cardinals might be replaced by groups of contemplative monks who work solely through prayer, contemplation, and discernment—focused more on the interior life and less on the political world and its variables that influence the Church. In the last conclave, factors such as the conflicts in Ukraine and the Holy Land, as well as the Vatican’s dire economic situation, may have influenced the cardinals’ decision: the profile of the skilled diplomat and economic manager always seems to hover over the betting odds. I wonder whether the holy pope will ultimately be nothing more than the figure of the good shepherd, who shows the path of salvation and lays down his life for his sheep.
I did some catching up on chapter 12 & 13. My understanding is that the woman represents 3 things, Eve, Israel and Our Lady. However today Israel has become the Church, and Our Lady also points to the Church. The waters are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages according to Revelation 17:15. In Rev 12:15 the serpent spews water to overtake the woman (the church), which really seems like it would refer to migration into Christian nations, especially Muslim migration. In that they are trying to overtake the church in terms of migration and births. During the period where the woman enters into the wilderness, it is allegedly symbolic of a time where the church or remnant church is taken care of by God. Kind of like how the Israelites were led through the wilderness to the promised land. It would seem that we would currently be in this period. The second beast of Revelation 13:11-18 sure sounds like it could be the Catholic church today. We know earth represents Christian peoples in revelation. It looks like it has lambs horns but speaks like a dragon, sure seems like the Vatican since Pope Benedict XVI. This is as far as I have gotten.
I only made it to Ch. 11 today with all these kids to take care of, heh. I plan to read much more tomorrow. My feeling so far is that the meaning both transcends the physical realm AND has multiple fulfillments in the physical realm. Sort of like the phrase "history repeats itself," but spiritually-speaking, it's more like layers of deeper and deeper meaning as similar stories unfold. So I think we've had kind of "types" of what will happen right before the Last Judgment already play out in the Old and New Testament and the last couple millennia. Christ on the white horse conquering souls while the dark riders of war, famine, and death punish sin has been an ongoing process in all these end times since His death on the Cross. In all of history since Christ people believe the Second Coming to be right around the corner, because they see the signs described in the Apocalypse. There are some wonderful descriptions of the Mass in there too--this wonderful balance to the evil in the world, keeping it in check, with the offering of the sacrifice and prayers of the Church rising like incense from the angels' ciboriums. I'm looking forward to reading more tomorrow.
I am glad you are looking forward to going further into the book. When you get into the parallel scriptures aspect of the book it will get more incredible, many of which I am sure you have already come across. The book weaves through the different books to give further understanding to each verse.
