The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin and defeat heresies. This promise, along with the next, is simply the reminder on how fervent prayer will help us all grow in holiness by avoiding sin, especially a prayer with the excellence of the Rosary. An increase in holiness necessarily requires a reduction in sin, vice, and doctrinal errors (heresies). If only the Modernists could be convinced to pray the Rosary! (see Lumen Gentium chapter V - The Call to Holiness #42) St. Louis de Montfort states "Since Mary alone crushed all heresies, as we are told by the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit (Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary)..." [True Devotion to Mary #167]
Mac, Bartimaeus's view is a standard opinion amongst Catholic historians. Likewise there is evidence that the rosary pre-dated Dominic - though the Order of Preachers are certainly responsible for its wide dissemination among the masses. But I only lodged and studied with the Dominicans for 7 years so what do I know.
Padraig this is pious speculation and dubious at that. Some is fairly obviously erroneous in fact. By "literate" you no doubt mean the ability to read and write. I would agree that, for the ancient world, the Jews probably were amongst the most literate of peoples. However, "in history", no. From medieval times, and certainly after the Industrial Revolution (much earlier in some countries) due to mass education and wealth the literacy rates are vastly greater. That is why all civilisations of Jesus's time had Scribes and other "clerical" organisations. The literate were a tiny minority. Very, very few people could read or write amongst any population. Even these literate, educated groups did not have on average the skills you and I take for granted. For example, people would come and marvel at St Jerome when he read his books quietly at the café (you get the picture) - because he could read without mouthing the words! And when we say the Jews were "well educated" what does that really mean? Certainly the (Greek) diaspora or trading Jews were (relatively speaking). But what about the ones stuck back in rural Palestine? Hmmmn. And I am not sure that people educated solely in "one book" (eg the Koran or the Old Testament) could be considered "educated" so far as most people understand that word. If one did not know Greek in the ancient world I do not believe one is even in the race for "most educated." There is no convincing evidence at all that Jesus (let alone Mary) could speak or write Greek. That of course does not mean they weren't brilliant or clever or smart or even genius's. Jesus, as a carpenter, would not have been classified by today's term "blue collar" or "tradesman". Such a profession required a bit of money and hard to access training. This put him into the equivalent of "middle class" and a respected member of the community. Re Mary and the temple. This is no more than dubious, pious legend coming pretty much from a single source (The Apochryphal writings). As these writings are idiosyncratic and full of incredulous stories as well as contrived tales they certainly do not deserve the status of "fact". That is why none of them made it into the Bible. For example in "Thomas's Gospel" baby Jesus made clay sparrows, blessed them, and they flew away. And even if it were true I do not believe the Temple capable of delivering an "education" that could be described as really making the recipient "probably the most literate and well educated people in history." So lets take all this with a very large grain of salt. Much grace does NOT necessitate much human perfection whether that be natural gifts (physical beauty) or acquired gifts (eg literacy or education). I am reminded of my Theology 101 lecturer (a philosopher himself) who began by asking us dummies, "if man is made in God's image and likeness, and God is the most perfect of all beings in all ways, does that mean God has the biggest, strongest and hairiest chest in the world?" The answer is of course, no .
Yes , I see. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Rosary But again I can only use the same arguement. 1. listen to you and some Dominicans. or 2.listen to St Louis de Montfort. A forum poll perhaps?
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, Hail, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve: To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious Advocate, Thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus, Oh clement Oh loving, Oh sweet Virgin Mary! Pray for us Oh Holy Mother of God that we may be made worthy the promises of Christ. Let us pray I believe the above is one of the most beautiful prayers of the rosary. It speaks volumes
We will agree to disagree or I will be going around in circles forever. This is meant to be a Spiritual rather than an anthropological thread. I do not really want to enter enter into a contest to prove which of us is the smartest. However here is an alternative view and leave it at that. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1573658/posts 'However, the evidence showing that reading and writing were widely practiced in Jesus’ age grows with every discovery of a new inscription. Much of this evidence comes from religious and governmental circles, but a great deal of it does not. The library of Qumran—otherwise known as the Dead Sea Scrolls—includes mostly religious texts, to be sure, but significantly, these represent both the continued copying of the sacred scripture and other religious books, and the creation of new ones. Members of the Jewish sect based at Qumran—commonly thought to be Essenes—must have been expected to read the Law regularly, since they produced so many copies of religious texts. During the Second Jewish Revolt against Rome, led by Simon Bar-Kokhba in 132–135 A.D., refugees from the invading Roman army fled to remote caves near the Dead Sea, south of the Qumran area where the scrolls were discovered. Some fragments of Biblical scrolls were found in these caves, but also an array of letters and legal deeds. A number of the letters are from Bar-Kokhba himself, or were addressed to him. One archive, belonging to a woman named Babatha, had been packed in an old wineskin and included deeds written in Greek and Aramaic; they concern ownership of property, debts, and marriage and divorce settlements. Some of them date from the middle of the first century A.D., or just after, so they exemplify the sort of legal documents that were being written in the Gospel period. One deed of divorce is similar in many ways to the traditional Jewish kethubah (marriage contract) and also to a particular deed of divorce between two Idumaeans drafted on a potsherd in the second century B.C., which was found at Marisa.' ' Qumran Scrolls. http://www.christusrex.org/www1/ofm/mag/TSmgenB3.html
It sure is. Dominicans sing it in Latin everyday to conclude Vespers (evening prayer). They process down the Church aisle for a blessing from the Prior at the same time. Happy memories.
Try a scholarly Catholic source rather than Wikipedia... The Catholic Encyclopedia (conservative) has a good historical exposition. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm Its standard, nothing new - except for you perhaps. Perhaps it would be good to do more research into your own faith before you come out with mildly dismissive statements like "I had no idea there were people who held views like yours."
Yet you have no problem being dismissive with Our Ladys words?:"Dear Dominic, do you know which weapon the Blessed Trinity wants to use to reform the world?" "Oh, my Lady," answered Saint Dominic, "you know far better than I do because next to your Son Jesus Christ you have always been the chief instrument of our salvation." Then Our Lady replied: "I want you to know that, in this kind of warfare, the battering ram has always been the Angelic Psalter which is the foundation stone of the New Testament. Therefore if you want to reach these hardened souls and win them over to God, preach my Psalter.
How does it please Our Blessed Lady to be argumentative like this in what was supposed to be a Spiritual thread? ..and about all things, the Rosary? I am closing this down. Very sad. The devil is at work , I see....and it is the devil, how he loves pride, being so proud himself, may God forgive you for letting yourself be used in this way. But you know, as my Spiritual Director told me many years ago when I first came face to face with this in-your-face wickedness, 'Take it as a compliment Padraig'. I have deleted users Blue Horizon and QOP hell will freeze over before I let them back. A very,very, very bad spirit Scarey stuff. In my view this was a direct, studied and malignant attack on the forum from the devil. poor souls Never mistake kindness and gentleness with stupidiity
'If you say the Rosary faithfully until death, I do assure you that, in spite of the gravity of your sins "you shall receive a never-fading crown of glory." Even if you are on the brink of damnation, even if you have one foot in hell, even if you have sold your soul to the devil as sorcerers do who practice black magic, and even if you are a heretic as obstinate as a devil, sooner or later you will be converted and will amend your life and save your soul, if - and mark well what I say - if you say the Rosary devoutly every day until death for the purpose of knowing the truth and obtaining contrition and pardon for your sins.' --St. Louis Marie de Montfort "The holy Rosary is a powerful weapon. Use it with confidence and you'll be amazed at the results." --St. Josemaria Escriva "If you say the Holy Rosary every day, with a spirit of faith and love, our Lady will make sure she leads you very far along her Son's path." --St. Josemaria Escriva "Say the Holy Rosary. Blessed be that monotony of Hail Mary's which purifies the monotony of your sins!" --St. Josemaria Escriva "You always leave the Rosary for later, and you end up not saying it at all because you are sleepy. If there is no other time, say it in the street without letting anybody notice it. It will, moreover, help you to have presence of God." --St. Josemaria Escriva “There is another related in the Chronicles of St. Dominic. Near Carcassonne, where St. Dominic was preaching the Rosary, there was an unfortunate heretic who was possessed by a multitude of devils. These evil spirits to their confusion were compelled at the command of our Lady to confess many great and consoling truths concerning devotion to her. They did this so clearly and forcibly that, however weak our devotion to our Lady may be, we cannot read this authentic story containing such an unwilling tribute paid by the devils to devotion to our Lady without shedding tears of joy.” --Saint Louis Marie de Montfort, The Secret of the Rosary.
Sixth Rose Mary's Psalter Ever since Saint Dominic established the devotion to the Holy Rosary up until the time when Blessed Alan de la Roche reestablished it in 1460 it has always been called the Psalter of Jesus and Mary. This is because it has the same number of Angelic Salutations as there are psalms in the Book of the Psalms of David. Since simple and uneducated people are not able to say the Psalms of David the Rosary is held to be just as fruitful for them as David's Psalter is for others. But the Rosary can be considered to be even more valuable than the latter for three reasons: Firstly, because the Angelic Psalter bears a nobler fruit, that of the Word Incarnate, whereas David's Psalter only prophesies His coming; Secondly, just as the real thing is more important than its prefiguration and the body is more than its shadow, in the same way the Psalter of Our Lady is greater than David's Psalter which did no more than prefigure it. And thirdly, because Our Lady's Psalter (or the Rosary made up of the Our Father and Hail Mary) is the direct work of the Most Blessed Trinity and was not made through a human instrument. Our Lady's Psalter or Rosary is divided up into three parts of five decades each, for the following special reasons: To honor the three Persons of the Most Blessed Trinity; To honor the life, death and glory of Jesus Christ; To imitate the Church Triumphant, to help the members of the Church Militant and the lessen the pains of the Church Suffering; To imitate the three groups into which the Psalms are divided: a) The first being for the purgative life, b) the second for the illuminative life, c) and the third for the unitive life; And, finally, to give us graces in abundance during our lifetime, peace at death, and glory in eternity.
5.The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the Rosary shall not perish. Since Our Lady is our Mother and Advocate, She always assists those who call on Her implicitly by praying the Rosary. The Church reminds us of this in the Memorareprayer, "... never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help or sought your intercession, was left unaided ..." 6.Whosoever shall recite the Rosary devoutly, applying himself to the consideration of its Sacred Mysteries shall never be conquered by misfortune. God will not chastise him in His justice, he shall not perish by an unprovided death; if he be just he shall remain in the grace of God, and become worthy of Eternal Life. This promise highlights the magnitude of Graces that the Rosary brings to whomever prays it. One will draw down God's Mercy rather than His Justice and will have a final chance to repent (see promise #7). One will not be conquered by misfortune means that Our Lady will obtain for the person sufficient Graces to handle said misfortune (i.e. carry the Crosses allowed by God) without falling into despair. As Sacred Scripture tells us, "For my yoke is sweet and my burden light." (Matthew 11:30)
‘Did the Lady say who she was?’ ‘She said she was the Lady of the Rosary.’ ‘Did you ask her what she wanted?’ ‘Yes – she said we must amend ourselves and not offend Our Lord who was too much offended, and must say the rosary and beg pardon for our sins.’ ‘Did she say anything else?’ ‘She said a chapel must be built at the Cova da Iria. - See more at: http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2...fatima-sister-lucia.html#sthash.61wLfdzJ.dpuf
Some very good quotes from Mac here. My favourite is: "Say the Holy Rosary. Blessed be that monotony of Hail Mary's which purifies the monotony of your sins!" --St. Josemaria Escriva I have always been very impressed when watching videos (with subtitles) of Josemaria Escriva speaking to various groups. The above quote is a typically helpful remark.
Great thread and so helpful. If we promote the Rosary we are reviving the Church. I am encouraged that faithful and devout praying of the Rosary leads to a true conversion of heart and is of immense help in obtaining for us the grace necessary for sanctity. I must say it more devoutly.
St Louis actually warns against those who do not accept the stories of the saints... Critical devotees 93. Critical devotees are for the most part proud scholars, people of independent and self-satisfied minds, who deep down in their hearts have a vague sort of devotion to Mary. However, they criticise nearly all those forms of devotion to her which simple and pious people use to honour their good Mother just because such practices do not appeal to them. They question all miracles and stories which testify to the mercy and power of the Blessed Virgin, even those recorded by trustworthy authors or taken from the chronicles of religious orders. They cannot bear to see simple and humble people on their knees before an altar or statue of our Lady, or at prayer before some outdoor shrine.
