I read page 260. Pope John Paul II does not say he fulfilled the request . Even Pius XII consecrated Russia in 42. And he even mentioned Russia. So whats new? Even Bertone admits in the last sentence that it is possible a future Pope will have to do it.[reading between the lines]
In JP II's own words : I DID CONSECRATE RUSSIA TO HER IMMACULATE HEART! There is NO reading between the lines there....out of the mouth of a saint....I will say no more on this topic. Just sharing what convinced me. We shall agree to disagree is all. God bless everyone!
Its sad Saint Pope JPII or Lucia never made this public. When we can quote Saint JPII directly that it is not accomplished. Why would anyone think the request is fulfilled when not one Pope or Sr Lucia is on public record saying it is. What is so special about this author?
If the consecration was carried out according to the exact wishes of heaven then why is the world going through a great storm and tribulations? FATIMA You have seen hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. It is to save them that God wants to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If you do what I tell you, many souls will be saved, and there will be peace. This war will end, but if men do not refrain from offending God, another and more terrible war will begin during the pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night that is lit by a strange and unknown light [this occurred on January 28, 1938], you will know it is the sign God gives you that He is about to punish the world with war and with hunger, and by the persecution of the Church and the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to the world to ask that Russia be consecrated to my Immaculate Heart, and I shall ask that on the First Saturday of every month Communions of reparation be made in atonement for the sins-of the world. If my wishes are fulfilled, Russia will be converted and there will be peace; if not, then Russia will spread her errors throughout the world, bringing new wars and persecution of the Church; the good will be martyred and the Holy Father will have much to suffer; certain nations will be annihilated. But in the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she will be converted, and the world will enjoy a period of peace. In Portugal the faith will always be preserved -- Where, oh where is the peace? Look at the links to today's news on the BBC website 14th August 2014! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28788945 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28785725 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28710569 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-28754687 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-28781440 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-28770311 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28760795 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28774954 Astounding, biblical & apocalyptical --- Surely signs of the times of what is on our very doorstep - new wars and persecution of the Church; the good will be martyred and the Holy Father will have much to suffer; certain nations will be annihilated. Our Lady's words not mine.
Thank you David, to remind me this (that I am seeing ghosts everywhere, LOL). I continue to say that I can't see a devil in Putin at this moment. To Putin: please remain a saint or become one !
here is Fr. Apostoli on Fatima....Fr Apostoli is the foremost representative at the World Apostolate of Fatima Shrine in Washington NJ.....He is main celebrant and speaker. He is on EWTN....when I am in his presence at mass, I feel like I am in the presence of a very HOLY man who is loved by our Mother....watch this clip. You will enjoy his talk on his book....again, I respect your desire to not believe the consecration was done. God Bless!
I have been thinking about this a lot and many seem to hold now saints up to the highest esteem while they were on earth and act as if since the church has declared them a saint now then everything they ever said or done must be infallible. All it means to be declared a saint is that the church knows without a doubt that the soul is in heaven. Therefore there must be millions of saints in heaven and millions of them that the church has not declared a saint yet. Every saint while on earth was still a person and still sinned and could still be wrong in their thoughts while in this life. Some of the greatest saints we have ever known were also the greatest sinners. Look at Mary Magdalene for example. She was a woman who had 7 demons inside of her that were cast out. She became the apostle of the apostles. She was chosen first by Jesus to show the world of his resurrection. For a short period of time she and only she was the whole Catholic church. Imagine someone like her now-a-days. We all know people like Mary Magdalene and who she was before she was exorcised by Jesus. We call these people lunatics. Could you even imagine one of these people who were redeemed and then all of a sudden they came running into the church declaring that they just saw Jesus resurrected. Many would probably think, "here we go again, better call the exorcist because the demons are back." The point I am trying to make is that we are all sinners and all sinners up to our deaths. We all need confession and are human and fall short constantly now matter how holy one is unless of course you are the Blessed Mother, which no human is or probably will ever be completely sinless while alive. We also are always constantly tested and allowed to be tested and the evil one can and will try to convince you things where you may appear to be right but indeed are not right on. This is pride and this is the sin the devil knows the best and he will constantly look to attack us with pride. Sure we love to think that because an individual who is now declared a saint must be right in anything they have said or done in their life on earth but this cannot be the case because to be human is to error and to sin and to be tempted. Maybe I am completely wrong on this thought and would love to hear your alls thoughts on this but that is what keeps stirring around in my mind. To be declared a saint by the church would not be to suggest that one did not have to spend some time in Purgatory either. It only means that the church knows with 100% clarity that this person is in heaven. As I look around the world, the church and even this forum, I see countless saints to be but they are not saints yet and thus are not infallible. Now when the saint shows up in a locution from heaven and declares something then they are obviously infallible. Thoughts?
I've said this before, and I believe it is the key. Pope Saint John Paul II did what he could, but it was not possible to do the consecration in union with the bishops because the bishops were not in union with him! That's the most important missing piece.
now THAT IS an interesting take....but I also believe what Father Apostoli says....that the First Five Saturday Devotion is NOT being done as requested. It has NOTHING to do with the Fatima Consecration and EVERYTHING to do with that..... How many of us on the forum are doing this? I can be honest and say I have not been faithful to doing this regularly but I WILL NOW
Hi Andy it is not my intention to undermine a prayerful comment like yours But I have a couple of points . To be elevated to the altar is part of the revelation Of the glory of God. Through the intercession of the candidate God is revealed in a miraculous healing with science unable to explain. On two separate occasions this is required before the Church declares a person Saint. The candidate is revealed by the power of their intercession to be as Jesus promised like the angels before God. Second regarding the Magdalene... Remember the parable of the servant who was forgiven the greater debt ? They would love by a greater measure. Jesus saw her true sorrow because despite sin most dreadful she recognised him. Wherever this gospel is preached... And that is why she is the witness her love was greater except for our Holy Mother of course . The church remains silent about location of souls after death except in the case of candidates for sainthood. Wise mother she is. Lastly you mention when a saint shows up in a locution they are then infallible - really says who the imperfect poor soul chosen to receive the word through an imperfect lense though interesting the debate about secret part three of Fatima is becoming tedious and a distraction. When we have the answer the question will no longer be relevant. Every word is dissected even poor Benedict tried to dampen speculation about his address in Fatima in 2010. Stating it was a prayer in hope rather than a prophetic hint! My tuppence worth.
Father Andrew do not represent our Lady of Fatima but the Secretary of State's party line on Fatima only and we already know the result, a world in fire, read more below : http://www.fatima.org/news/newsviews/fatima-for-today-a-response.pdf Aviso
Forgot the most important part of your comment the potential for pride. That again is why we submit to the teaching authority of the church. When asked the measure of holiness many saints canonised ones declared obedience is the yardstick to holiness. For me the words of Benedict in light of the world on Fatima is a wonderful example of our ability to submit our own will.
Thank you, Bonaventure, for this video. Like you, listening to Fr Apostoli has convinced me that the Consecration was done by Pope John Paul in 1984. Maybe one can argue about certain points but God is not a legalist. The linking of Pope Leo XIII's vision in 1884 with the Consecration of 1984 is fascinating. On the matter of whether the third secret has been fully revealed, I disagree with Fr Apostoli and he doesn't really present any argument or evidence to counter the very strong case that there is a part of the secret not yet published. There are also some other comments he makes which I do not think are correct. But on the Consecration, I find him convincing.
Good grief.....Putin was a Colonel within the KGB. You don't get to that rank without trusted ruthlessness. He has not changed his stripes as is obvious in the news these days. He manipulated a way to stay in power now for years even through his little minion Medvedjev. Obama, the Commie Muslim enabler, even promised more flexibility to Putin AFTER he had already obliged him by canceling the missile defense systems promised to our allies, Poland and Czechs. Putin's current course (ahem, even AFTER this so-called accomplished grace for Russia to be peaceful and not be foisting the Red Dragon of Marxist Communism upon the world) is for Russian hegemony in the region, once again, while, just as LTTW's messages point out, making political connections to Mideast factions of the worst kind: Iran and Syria. There is a long time history of Marxist/Muslim cooperation for the same goal of destroying the West. Russia has also recently made big time deals with the other Commie perpetrator (and child systematic killer), China, for more world control. The West does not know just what Putin will do next because his actions are not predictable because he is following Satan's influence over him (again, as LTTW messages explain). Nope, JPII did his best, including an inference to Russia within that whole consecration of the world (and with only those Bishops that involved themselves...not ALL as requested at Fatima) but the Vatican was still under restraints of ongoing agreements with the Soviets at the time for the protection of Catholics captured within that Commie system....so, actually, there was no standing alone power of "Russia" only in existence in geo-politics at the time. NOW there is a recognized Russia and a Russia on steroids to accomplish that Red Dragon control by a minion of Satan, Putin, seemingly possessed with that evil determination (once again, as the LTTW messages point to). The will of the Father to have the world know of the only refuge, the Spouse of the Holy Spirit/the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and that saving grace for the world coming through her....via the Church....has not as yet, and is not now as yet been accomplished, obviously, by the current events. LTTW: The Church must learn the wisdom of my heart. Do not reject me. Do not set me aside. God’s plan began with me (I was with him in the beginning of his days) and God’s plan will end with me, the Woman Clothed With the Sun. The heavenly Father has declared these times as the Age of Mary but you have not yet understood or even believed the words of your own prophets and saints. The Church must see my heart in this way, filled with heavenly rain, waiting to quench these demonic forces that are evident everywhere and to everyone. Is there not a demonic source to all the wars, to all the diseases, to all the acts of terrorism, to all the hopelessness? I have been set aside. The Church flourished when I was exalted. (so obviously true) In these wars, is the Church to step aside, to stand on the sidelines, and to think that the world powers can establish peace? The Church has been formed for this moment. Only the Church can avoid the annihilation of the nations. Only the Church can release the fires of peace that are stored in my Immaculate Heart. You know what to do, yet you refuse to take the steps. What will I do with you? Do I allow the nations to be annihilated? Why do you set aside the pleas I made at Fatima? The Red Dragon of Marxist Communism begun in Russia has not been conquered with the requirement of world peace. If people truly want that peace they should be backing that specific consecration as asked for by heaven through God's own Prophet, His mother. Saying that "a" consecration, with the understanding of said restraints upon the Pope while with good will, has been accepted by heaven and a certain grace was given with the dissolution of the Soviet System does not obviously fulfill the stipulated requirements nor the fruits promised if those requests were obeyed exactly. Even the holy years themselves consecrated to Mary were rewarded with graced fruits for the world. It was said that the Consecration of Russia would be late....and Pope Francis has the task of gaining the support of all of the Bishops of the world for this purpose. Most likely, the times of this great tribulation as it continues to grow worldwide, will be the convincing factor for the Bishops to finally join with the Pope...for there will be no other worldly help or hope and they too will have to admit their individual helplessness!
The only logical way for me that the consecration can be done with full Bishop support would suggest that there has to be a cleansing of the church from the evil that has infiltrated this the past almost 100 years now. This is why I think that the consecration will not even be able to be fully achieved until after The Warning unless the Pope cleans house further now. It saddens me how the church will approve apparitions and yet not follow the instructions. Not only has this been the case in Fatima but even in my own country where the US Bishops have never fully followed what Our Lady of America instructed Sister Ephrem. They have done all but the most pivotal thing asked: On October 13, 1956, The Blessed Virgin Mary requested that a statue of "Our Lady of America" be enshrined in the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception in Washington, D.C., as a special place of pilgrimage and a special safeguard for our Country. Our Lady promised miracles greater than those of Lourdes and Fatima if her children heeded her warnings and fulfilled her requests. She indicated that this would be accomplished through her loyal sons, the Bishops of the United States. America is on the brink of ruin that began with the free love era of the sixties but could be saved if the US Bishops would just do as she asked and yet they still have not Read all the messages here if you like: http://www.ourladyofamerica.org/pdf/OLOA_Messages_Internet.pdf Our Lady of America, Pray For Us!
Yes! After the great apostasy, all the true bishops will be in union with the pope, for the first time in ages. Then, the consecration with all the attached promises will be fulfilled. And it will be very late!
That could well be the case....that the Bishops (those still wanting) might only be humbled as to their past failures in regard to this Fatima request....after the Warning.
To add a little bit to what you said, I'd like to include: 1. The beginning of the Third Secret (never fully revealed) of Fatima says, "In Portugal, the dogma of faith will always be preserved, etc." Ergo: There will be a failure to preserve belief in "the dogma of the Faith"in places other than Portugal...probably many places. 2. And, in 1931, Pope Pius XII said: "I am worried by the Blessed Virgin's messages to Lucia of Fatima. The persistence of Mary about the dangers which menace the Church is a divine warning against the suicide of altering the Faith, in Her liturgy, Her theology and Her soul..." 3. And again, when he stated earlier: "a day will come when the civilized world will deny its God, when the Church will doubt as Peter doubted. She will be tempted to believe that man has become God" As Our Blessed Mother said at Fatima: Only I can help you...
I tend to agree with Kathy K, but also as Bonaventure says, perhaps we should also be fulfilling the First Five Saturday devotions. Everyone posting here on this thread seems to have very good, valid points. I truly find myself vascillating back and forth because of such well laid out cases. But then my head starts to hurt and I say to myself, Hmmm I remember a time when I argued back and forth with myself on something and finally got tired and went to prayer over it finding solution or peace or both. I ask myself then why did I not go immediately to prayer instead of wasting precious time going in circles??? But I am sure I will do it again because of my human condition. How patient God is with us.
