Church not just wounded but seriously infected

Discussion in 'Pope Francis' started by Bartimaeus, May 31, 2015.

  1. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus Archangels

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    (Ireland, again) Before Mass today I got into conversation with a woman of deep faith. I don't know her that well but I have admired the joyful way she presents herself and her faith.
    Anyway, in the course of the conversation she mentioned 'mindfulness' with enthusiasm, and I admit I when to an increased level of alertness. With in a few exchanges she mentioned she had voted 'yes' in the referendum, and had lots of lovely, loving reasons for doing so. I managed to make some counter arguments without getting angry - which is a major achievement for me!

    I went into Mass so deflated again. The thought was in my head that Pope Francis wants a wounded Church on the streets. But the Church isn't wounded - its carrying a fatal infection, and with all this blood dripping from our wounds we are actually killing the very people we seem to be bandaging.

    In Ireland we had a Hepatitis C scandal where people (especially women after birth) were given infected blood transfusions, and they then went on to develop the serious illnesses themselves.
    Now we have these loving faith transfusions where we love the sinner and make no judgement of their sin - most notably abortion and homosexual activity. Famous (in Ireland) priests (Peter McVerry) and nuns (Sister Stan) spoke out for 'gay marriage'. Public Catholics - Daniel O'Donnell and Mary McAleese did the same.
    These aren't just wounded Catholics - they're carrying life-threatening infections, and I don't think they should not be allowed into the field hospital or battlefield. I'm sure we could add a few Cardinals to the list.

    Will the Family Synod etc highlight who's infected and then Pope Francis will deliver the antibiotic?
    This is the spiritual equivalent of Ebola, and the death is eternal.
    God preserve us.
     
  2. Infant Jesus of Prague

    Infant Jesus of Prague The More you Honor Me The More I will Bless Thee

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    Can relate to your conversation at Mass. Im getting to the point of not talking to others at Mass for beliefs are so wide spread these days. so many are working off emotions so i just offer a smile and a hello, probably not the best way to encounter others...
    quote of Thomas Paine comes to mind(partial quote)

    December 23, 1776

    THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph...

    http://www.ushistory.org/Paine/crisis/c-01.htm
     
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  3. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

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    Blessed Conchita de Armida teaches us how to love the Church:
    "To love the Church is not to criticize her, not to destroy her, not to try to change her essential structures, not to reduce her to a humanism, a horzonalism and to the simple service of a human liberation. To love the Church is to cooperate with the work of Redemption by the Cross and in this way obtain the grace of the Holy Spirit come to renew the face of this poor earth, conducting it to its consummation in the design of the Father's immense love." (Conchita, A Mother's Spiritual Diary pg. 248)
     
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  4. Mario

    Mario Powers

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    WOW! She packed a lot into two sentences and she wasn't even Irish!:D

    Safe in the Barque of Peter.
     
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  5. Scolaire Bocht

    Scolaire Bocht Archangels

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    Yes I think we do have to love the Church and so basically we have to accept that these things have happened for a reason.

    Personally I think we have had a generation of priests and bishops who don't speak out about these things because the Man above wants us to develop our own consciences and capacity to speak out without hiding behind the skirts of priests and bishops as maybe we did in the past.
     
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  6. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus Archangels

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    My sense is that redemption without the Cross is being put forward by many within the Church - but that's a lie. I love the Church but people in the Church teaching a different gospel damage the Church and lose souls.
    But do i j6st have to trust in the power of God - King of Kings?
     
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  7. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus Archangels

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    Good point.
    God's ways are waaaaay above mine, so maybe those that teach lies are already outside the Church but the just don't know it! And despite their best efforts they cannot do the damage they wish to inflict...
    but i hate to think of souls being ledcastray, and i hate to think of the suffering of Christ, but i do believe that just as He would have gone through His Passion for me aoone, equally He would do it for ev3ry other person individually.
    Halleluia!
     
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  8. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    [​IMG]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concepcion_Cabrera_de_Armida


    Thanks Lnnfiat I had never heard of Concepcion Cabrera de Armida. I am reading up on her now. She has a lovely face.

    As to not, 'Critiscising the Church'. I am genuinely not sure about this but will take it away in prayer.

    I think in my own personal life one of my great lacks is that I do not have ayone criticising me.

    On the other hand for a married person I think one of the greatest blessings is that spouses get to go take shots at each other. This may not seem like a blessing but it seems to me as an outsider a great grace. For in the ordinary course of events in daily life who will ever hold up a mirror to our souls? People are too afraid.

    I can see where harping on about about people or the Church can stick like mud; but genuine critique, is often good, perhaps. I will have to pray about it.
     
  9. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

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    A wise priest I know recently said .do not take the teeth from the Gospel. The truth on sin and its consequences are plainly spelt out but people put them aside. I asked a woman in a prayer group I used to attend,(she was voting yes on compassionate grounds), if she believed a gay lifestyle would take someone to heaven or hell. She said it's all about love. The teeth are taken out. We need some fire and brimstone from the church.
     
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  10. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    I remember reading a quote that said something like "Do not make God your eider down or prayer your pillow. God is a tiger, not a pussy cat."
     
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  11. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

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    And our God is a just and merciful God . Even those in Hell are bound to admit as much.
    Which Saint said this ... ''BE A LION FROM THE PULPIT ,AND A LAMB IN THE CONFESSIONAL''?
     
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  12. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    St Alphonsus
     
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  13. miker

    miker Powers

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    In this world of self help groups and clubs, I think some have tried to put the Church in that category. They have tried to make it another "club" of people. And you are right, they have left out THE single reason and purpose. It is the living Bride of its founder Jesus Christ, the second person of the Most Holy Trinity. It is HIS Church! It is not a club. It is not really even really "led" by the Pope or Magisterium. He is THE VICAR- meaning the stand in or substitute FOR the only leader of the Church, Jesus Christ. I'm no theologian or expert here, but it would be nice to be reminded of this from the pulpit once in awhile. We are members of the body of Christ -the Church). We are not members of a club. Peace
     
  14. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I wish , years and years ago, someone , a priest perhaps had come and told me what he knew about the secret clerical child abuse. I would have been horrified and scandalised of course, but hopefully I would have gotten the grace to get up and do something.
     
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  15. CrewDog

    CrewDog Guest

    That's the Problem! We sat in Church and watched it all "Going-Down" (abuse, hi-jacking of VII, Lefty/Liberation "Theology") and said nothing .... or voted with our feet :( ...... but it was in large measure how we were all trained in the Church.... Sit down & Shut Up 'cause Sister, Father, Excellency or Eminence knows best!!
    Well .... we've seen how all that has unfolded and why The Storm ... and Glorious Restoration :)

    GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!
     
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  16. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus Archangels

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    I'm 47 yrs but i can't really relate to that 'sit down shut up' scenario. I thank God that i missed that.

    Maria Goretti was canonized in 1950 - the first outdoor canonization ceremony due to the size of the crowd. I doubt there was even 1 catholic that thought it was ok to have sex with a child in 1950. But it happened, by ordained priests.
    Again this was not a wound it was an infection.
    Because of that sex abuse infection the Church has been left wounded.

    Our wounds aren't the problem. The infection of child abuse was a problem. Now the infection of redemption without the Cross is a problem.
    Wounds can be bandaged but putting bandages on untreated infections is a recipe for disaster.

    Even with all we know today people are anaesthetised and generally unwilling to risk losing adult respect for the sake of highlighting inappropriate behaviour towards children - my experience in a non-church setting Ireland 2015.
    Waiting until after something happens is too little too late in my opinion, but people like their comfort. As a society we have learnt nothing from the sins of the church.
    It is the grace of God that protects our children, and very, very few people would go as far as it takes to protect children - most will pass by on the other side of the road and pretend they didn't see anything.

    And that is why we have to be fed daily by the word of God - to keep our eyes open and to make us willing to cross the road.
    ...sorry if i've gone on too long...
     
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  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    I read an article today about Pope Francis. Apparently the reason he has so many enemies in the higher levels of the Church is that he is trying to transfer power to lay people:

    http://www.mondayvatican.com/vatican/the-real-pope-francis-and-his-real-enemies

    A lot of it, I think is to do with the devil, but. Just pure badness.
     
  18. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    In our diocese we knew there were multiple known homosexual molesters. (I refuse to call them pedophiles. By definition 90% of the abuse was homosexual molestation of teenage boys.) When the stories broke in the Boston press in 2001 we waited and waited for our local media to follow suit. Local Catholics here had met with the bishop prior to 2001 and begged him to at least remove the offenders who had been named in the trial transcripts of a molestation case from the early 1990s. He refused and was not ... gracious about it. Finally I and another lay person contacted an investigative reporter at a local paper and directed her to the trial transcripts and begged her to pursue it. That media pressure got rid of at least a half dozen known molesters. (Out of court settlements in the 1970s and 1980s often included a gag order on both parties and no criminal charges were ever filed which meant priests could continue in ministry without a criminal record.) Our bishop hated us for pursuing these cases and forcing the diocese to remove these known molesters. Our group of laity were referred to in the chancery office as "enemies of the diocese." We have a new bishop who inherited a terrible mess here. There is a state grand jury investigating our diocese now so our problems are far from over.

    This is just a microcosm of what's going on in our world.
     
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  19. padraig

    padraig Powers

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    All forecast at Fatima...and other apparition sites. I have an interior sense we have not heard all there is to hear.
     
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  20. lynnfiat

    lynnfiat Fiat Voluntas Tua

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    Conchita has written several books besides her Diary. One book is "To My Priests", which I believe every Priest on earth should read! This book was dictated by Jesus for His Priests but is incredibly informative for lay people also. It was out of print for some time, but I believe you can order them from St. Joseph Catholic Books, 2829 W. Lincoln Ave., Anaheim, CA 92801 (www.catholicstjosephbooks.com) Three other of her books that I have read are: "Before the Altar", "Seasons of the Soul", and "I Am". These writings flood your soul with peace and wonder. They are absolutely incredible. It is believed that Conchita was an exemplar of living in the Divine Will. Bless you.
     
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