You made that distinction clear when you first posed the question? I don't recall seeing the link when the question was first presented, and the answer to that initial simple question is simple. If you did make that distinction, my apologies. I have a lot going on this weekend and haven't watched the thread very closely the last day or two. If you didn't initially then subsequently advanced the other details, again my apologies but I dealt with that scenario ad nauseum when I was still doing apologetics over at FreeRepublic.com. I'm not attacking, just stating facts. This stuff is ethics 101, it ain't complicated.
Thanks Brian. Interesting...ethics 101. What happened to the first 100 stages?. I suppose you just skipped them. Too boring. As you know Our Lady of Akita wept 101 times. The first 1 stood for Eve, the 0 for God's eternal love and the second 1 for Our Lady. Doesn't get much more advanced than that.
Here in the States college classes always start numbering at 101 and go on up to the more advanced level, so "101" is commonly used to indicate basic freshman classes. Apologies if in the South Pacific the blokes number things differentIy.
Good thanks. I'm attending a pro-life conference tomorrow at Franciscan University of Steubenville in Ohio and our daughter is in her second year here. We just picked her up and took her out to dinner in West Virginia at a cool restaurant that was once an antebellum mansion. So I'm posting from my old iPhone with hit or miss reception and not communicating well (i.e., not comprehending well) this evening.
I guess I will jump in here as this is an interesting thread. I am just going to give my two cents on some of the posts. I don't believe a Pope is bound by the "rules" of the church because "rules" are a matter of discipline and the Pope holds the key of discipline. The Pope is bound by the spiritual authority and can certainly sin that way, but breaking a "rule" is not necessarily a sin. Some canon laws are reflections of the eternal moral law and it would be a sin to break them but others it would not. In regards to the last point, who is excommunicated, whether automatically or formally, is a function of discipline that the Pope holds the keys to. And therefore he would not be bound to such rules.
Can the Pope give bad advice, even sinful advice to another person? I believe the answer is Yes. This would be a personal sin. Why is it not a teaching? because a teaching must be promulgated to the entire church before it becomes a teaching.
Sorry Advocate. My comment was not meant to start anything and was a follow up from previous comments I made. Hope it did not confuse anyone. I presumed the Pope is bound by the same teachings and guidlines as the rest of us, bound by the definitions of sin. I was definitely not saying that Pope Francis contravenes the teachings of the Church. I know how he feels when he gets misunderstood. You have to be so bloomin careful on this site. Thanks for your comment.
If the Pope approved of abortions privately to someone or a group of people, that would be a personal sin on the Pope's part but as to whether or not he is automatically excommunicated, I don't think so, since deciding who is automatically excommunicated is a matter of discipline which the Pope holds the key to. And a Pope cannot be bound by a previous Pope's decision on who is automatically excommunicated and for what sin. just my two cents, I could be wrong.
Just got the chance there to finally read the popes comments to the Lutheran lady. Now if I was in a cave with a weeks supply of peyote I might be able to reconcile his answer with Catholic tradition but I just checked and I'm pretty sure I'm on my Todd after a well deserved Saturday morning lie in
[ Padraig, I once; years ago, read something about this so called (permission to nuns to abort babies by Pope Paul VI) , but also at the time it was believed by some, that Pope Paul VI was imprisoned in the vatican and an imposter pope was installed as pope (who looked like the Pope) therefore, things were able to be proclaimed within the church that were not valid and this all happened without the knowledge of the majority of the catholic faithful??? I had to re-evaluate my position in the church at this time. And I decided that I would stay with my cruicfied Lord, in the so called Catholic church, even if the gates of hell had infiltrated to such a degree that the Holy Father could be imprisioned and an imposter had taken his seat! Because it was clear to me that My Lord Jesus was the one that was being cruicifed anew! and I decided I would stay to be one of the ones that would love Him in the church, through this! I do not know if any of the statements that I read in those years regarding the imposter, Pope Paul VI, nor this horrendous account of permission for abortion was in any way correct, but it hardended me to stay with My Catholic Faith no matter what happened. I wanted to be there for My Jesus in His Hour of need! And still I wish to stay with the Catholic Church no matter what; For one reason..... I want to be with my Lord and Love my Lord, as He endures these insults and these abuses even if they come from the ones He trusted the most, the leaders of the Catholic faith. Maybe my little 'I love you', will console some portion of His Most Loving, Merciful and Generous Heart. Blessed be God always.
There have been so many occasions I have taken a long hard look at my horrendous self in the mirror of Conscience and in Light of the Forgiveness of God managed though His grace to give myself a break and forgive myself. In view of this the behaviours of others come as no suprise to me. If I can knock at the door with a contrite heart and squeeze through the open door I guess anyone can. But I must admit the sins of others come as no surprise. I realsie looking at back at my own life I was perfectly capable, but for God's grace of any evil at all, no matter how terrible. Only God's grace stopped me. So what others get up to comes as no surpise. I am not sure of conspiracy theories surrounding the Vatican. I do believe that there is a small group of elite Satanists pretty well running the World , all the evidence I have seen points to this. It would be incrediblae if they were not up and running in the Highest reaches of the Vatican. and they have been nestled there for centuries. This is no surprise, where there is great holiness you will always get great evil ,right alongside. For instance these people use the basements of Catholic Churches for their practises, this is no accident...and who opens the doors at night for them? Who has the keys? Who is looking the other way..or joining in?
After I read all of this thread I must ask you to please do not insult the Pope by calling him clown or anti-pope or other bad names. Perhaps that’s what the enemies of the Church want us to do, so we can fall into the chaos, into the anarchy. If the Pope says or does anything wrong, please correct him objectively but with humility and respect. He is there on the Chair of Peter then that’s because God aloud it so, he is part of God’s plan for our Salvation, maybe he is our greatest challenge in the humankind history, and the biggest private challenge for our souls. Is he a good or a bad Pope? Like any other one before, he is the Pope that our generation deserves.
I'm at the Pro-Life Healthcare Alliance conference at FUS today. Great conference, but there was a most unfortunate typographical error in today's conference schedule: View attachment 3752
I hope no one on the Forum had anything to do with that! Just kidding, BK. Hope that the conference is a good one, typos and all. Steubenville is a wonderful place! My favorite spot is the adoration chapel.
I will wait and pray to see how this all folds out with Pope Francis. I have concerns of course, but will not call him a heretic or clown. He certainly is not a great pope and may very well end up being a rogue one, but I need to see what his actions will be concerning all of this. If the worst case scenario emerges, I pray he has the opportunity to be a martyr for the redemption of his own soul. I also pray much for Benedict, who has some culpability in all this and potential loss of souls due to Francis, as Francis would not be in charge if he had not stepped down. But I also take comfort in knowing that if a soul is mis-lead by a bad priest, pope, or person, God gives that soul the grace it needs to overcome it all and still wind up a saint. We just need to cooperate with that grace, but the grace is there. So, I will watch and pray and listen closely to what I get in prayer. I know I can not personally rely on my instincts on these matters. When I rely on my instincts, I am relying on myself. And given these are end times with extreme confusion, mis-information, and buckethead is at his strongest point and I have a huge target on my back because I am trying to be holy so I can draw others onto the narrow path...relying on myself in this situation is the worst thing I could do. I will rely completely on God and what I receive in prayer for all of this. I am not smart enough to connect all the dots of prophecy and figure it all out. But if I stay close to Jesus and our lady and ask for their guidance, I have a much better chance at not being deceived. Plus I know with my instincts, I would be lucky to last 30 days in a war...let alone 30 years! May God bless this forum and Padraig!
Thanks. I was Chairman of this pro-life group and got this current conference off the ground but had to step down this summer due to work duties and health trouble. I'm excited that we are finally having a conference at Steubenville. We've been coming here for over two decades for various Catholic conferences and now we have our daughter attending here. Great place.
Basto, Thank You for this post! Funny you should post this link to Fr Alfonso. Going thru my favorite links days ago,I came across Fr Alfonso and thought of clicking it. Im very familiar with his order (in English The Society of Jesus Christ the Priest...if I remember right) they were in central NJ and in Northern Virgina. Very Holy and Orthodox. Very Big on Adoration, confession. You really brought me down memory lane Basto...good and bad. Bad in the sence Fr Alfonso called my ever so wise Confessor back to Spain to teach in their school.The whole parish had tears in our eyes when Fr announced to us he was called back to Spain. I must confess ! i felt my heart was pulled out. After praying about my selfishness and spiritual greed a thought popped into my mind, Fr was being called to teach young men to be other Fr Octavios ( forget o or a...sorry ) So many Happy pius memories, Holy reverant Mass, Eucharistic procession thru the streets ,always powerful stirring homilies. People would come from all over to the Churches this order was sheparding. With your post, I take I must listen to Frs' latest talks...Your post is not a coincedance for me. Thanks again Basto !
