"Francis has been totally orthodox..can only be faulted by faulty reading"

Cardinal Francis George of Chicago says Francis'..who am I to judge..sound-bite, “has been very misused … because he was talking about someone who has already asked for mercy and been given absolution, whom he knows well,” George said.

SLANDER (GOSSIP) IS MURDER! IT KILLS... THE GOOD NAME OF OTHERS.

'Slander is a word that has an interesting origin. It comes from the word Devil. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, slander means MALICIOUS TALK; to spread damaging information; to defame; to speak ill of. Is it no wonder where slander derives it’s name? Slander is the work of the Devil, and those who slander...

 

Two questions

Has the organisation anything to do with abortion? Did they get the medal because they promote peace?

God Bless

 

I remember the pope saying that where there is calumny there is satan, that calumny comes from hatred and destroys the work of God.

 

Where did Mr. Ferrara "discard the primary of the Pope"?

Also, you seem to speak approvingly of the recent Vatican Sex Education guide, a guide which includes sexually-explicit images that are not only unnecessary to healthy sex education but are also potential occasions of sin for those youths who will view them.

 

Really Janet, Cardinal George was correct. Where I believe the scandal is in the pope's "who am I to judge" comments are the fact that 99.9% of people don't read the fine print and believe the church has changed its stance on homosexuality. Even Mark Mallet has stated this.
I believe the pope got what he wanted, an orthodox comment for those "practicing catholics" and a "perceived softening on homosexuality" for everyone else. Scandalous indeed. When has he clarified his stated belief on this issue since?

Speaking of the late saintly Cardinal George, and I live in his diocese, here are his comments on this issue:


To begin, George said he’d like to ask Francis if he fully grasps that in some quarters, he’s created the impression Catholic doctrine is up for grabs.

Does Francis realize, for example, “what has happened just by that phrase, ‘Who am I to judge?’ ”

Francis’ signature sound-bite, George said, “has been very misused … because he was talking about someone who has already asked for mercy and been given absolution, whom he knows well,” George said.

(Francis uttered the line in 2013, in response to a question about a Vatican cleric accused of gay relationships earlier in his career.)

“That’s entirely different than talking to somebody who demands acceptance rather than asking for forgiveness,” George said.

“Does he not realize the repercussions? Perhaps he doesn’t,” George said. “I don’t know whether he’s conscious of all the consequences of some of the things he’s said and done that raise doubts in people’s minds.”

“The question is why he doesn’t he clarify” these ambiguous statements, George said. “Why is it necessary that apologists have to bear the burden of trying to put the best possible face on it?”

 

Perhaps I could have used a 'gentler' word and said that Ferrara had discarded the leadership of the Pope. It's easy to get into a pedantic argument on this but the best illustration of what I am referring to is to mention again the behaviour of Cardinal Burke who, while disagreeing with quite a lot of Pope Francis' approach, fully respects and treats Francis as all Catholics should, including Mr Ferrara. I posted a quote from Cardinal Burke at http://motheofgod.com/threads/franc...ted-by-faulty-reading.9550/page-9#post-143113

As for the Vatican's guide, it is clearly a difficult matter to get exactly right but are you criticizing the attempt or the principle? If the latter, then I would ask you what I've asked two other members - do you prefer that the youth are left to find out how best to handle these matters from the TV and the internet and films and their fellow school kids rather than learning from the Church?

 

Who am I to judge...that is what a SAINT would say

I am here to JUDGE...that is what a Pharisee would say

One leads the sheep to the well, while the other throws out the chaf. The chaf can only be judged by God and should not be judged on earth.

Two types of judgement one is to judge the people on earth...no, no. The other is to judge the sin. Which is a whole different issue.

Once the sheep walk through the door... maybe the conversion process starts.

Read our Holy Fathers homilies and you will be presently surprised,he is as conservative (as Pope Benedict) but seems to speak about the mystical much more then his predecessors.

Just a thought

 

Thank you for your thoughtful comment Fallen Saint. In my experience most people reacted to the "who am I to judge " in the way it was meant - a reminder about God's sovereignty and our response. They did not think it was giving the go ahead or the stamp of approval for perversion. It simply told us what our Catholic attitude should be. Truth and Justice, (God's) and Mercy (God's and ours). In simple terms I think he was just saying "Don't be so quick to judge."

 

The organisation gives medals to pro-abortionists. How can you promote peace when you promote the death of the innocent?

Mother Teresa: But I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion, because it is a war against the child, a direct killing of the innocent child, murder by the mother herself. And if we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people not to kill one another?

 

Yeah - join the Elton John fan club.

Speaking his annual AIDS benefit in New York Elton John praised Paul Francis for pushing for an acceptance of homosexuality

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...ng-man-who-wants-everybody-to-be-9825296.html

And how about USA's oldest 'gay' magazine voting him as person of the year in 2013?

 

Hello, John: I'm pretty new around here as well and I believe your point is spot on. Particularly when the full context of the Holy Father's statement is revealed, one can readily see this Pope was not in any way endorsing the sin.

Unfortunately, as ever, the secular press pulled this statement from context to contort the intent of His Holiness.
As noted in this article, both excellent shepherds, the Good Bishops Sample and Propocki understood well the intent of Pope Francis.

With the following quote from the full text, I continue to pray for the conversion of all who need to embrace chastity:

Pipe Francis said, obviously speaking of a sinner

 

You folks are in denial about the impact of the Pope's remarks.

Whether you like it or not his "Who am I to judge' quote has become mainstream - sure you can buy the T-shirt.

I would say Elton John has one in his wardrobe

 

I'll give a straight answer - yes, I would rather the youth be "educated" about explicit sexual behavior including "educational" videos and films from the evil world than from the Church.

Let me explain, please.

I'm not considered a youth myself at this point (I'm 31) but I remember being a teenager like it was yesterday and can personally testify to the harm that the Church does when it thinks it should be the explicit educator. I was lucky in that I was raised by devout and knowledgable Catholics who made sure I knew my faith, but unfortunately many of my fellow peers were not. Almost without fail the so-called "educators" fail to distinguish sin, the commandments, mortal/venial sin (I was even told by the Confirmation retreat spokeswoman that there is no mortal/venial sin. That all sin is equal and just sin) let alone temptation or immodesty. The problem then is that when you take on the role of educator and fail to discuss at length these teachings of the Church regarding sexuality and other moral behavior, then you are in actuality no better than the secular influence and actually worse, because you have failed in the primary duty which is to lead the little ones to Jesus and Mary. In fact I would say that the educator falls under the warning of Jesus Himself, that "whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea" Matthew 18:6.
Usually I would make a comment in the group discussion about such and such being a sin in fact, according to the Catechism, and I would be met with blank looks and ridicule, that I was a prude, it was my personal sexual hang up, and not to impose my "opinion" on others. This I regard as more harmful because the youth then believe that certain explicit behavior is acceptable in the church, there's hardly a reason to go to confession (did you kill somebody???) and then we wonder why Catholics divorce, remarry, cohabit, abort, never go to confession, and on and on. Youth learn about sex from everywhere - what they need is to know that certain behavior is a sin. That is what no one will tell them and why we are in the mess we are today.

 

DivineMercy, you are bang on target in your post. And I am 68. Truth does not change with time.

 

Has the Pope said anything about 'Scandal' Joen?
Has he said, where there is scandal there is satan?

 

What do I care what Cardinal George has to say? Sounds like you are spreading Gossip Janet.
What does Pope Francis have to say about this supposedly misused quote?

 

Although it is wasted on you, Mac, here is the answer to your question:

Francis explains 'who am I to judge?'

• 
  Pope Francis talks with a woman during his general audience in St. Peter's Square at the Vatican Nov. 18, 2015. (CNS/Paul Haring)

Joshua J. McElwee | Jan. 10, 2016

ROME
Interviewing Pope Francis in July, Italian journalist Andrea Tornielli asked the pope how he might act as a confessor to a gay person in light of his now famous remarks in a press conference in 2013, when he asked: "Who am I to judge?"

Francis' reply appears in a new book The Name of God is Mercy to be released Tuesday.

"On that occasion I said this: If a person is gay and seeks out the Lord and is willing, who am I to judge that person?" the pope says. "I was paraphrasing by heart the Catechism of the Catholic Church where it says that these people should be treated with delicacy and not be marginalized."

"I am glad that we are talking about 'homosexual people' because before all else comes the individual person, in his wholeness and dignity," he continues. "And people should not be defined only by their sexual tendencies: let us not forget that God loves all his creatures and we are destined to receive his infinite love."

"I prefer that homosexuals come to confession, that they stay close to the Lord, and that we pray all together," says Francis. "You can advise them to pray, show goodwill, show them the way, and accompany them along it."

Asked whether there is an opposition between truth and mercy, or doctrine and mercy, the pontiff responds: "I will say this: mercy is real; it is the first attribute of God."

"Theological reflections on doctrine or mercy may then follow, but let us not forget that mercy is doctrine," says the pope. "Even so, I love saying: mercy is true."

The Name of God is Mercy is the result of an interview between the pope and Tornielli, the coordinator for the Vatican Insider website. The book is being published in 86 countries and about 20 languages on Tuesday. NCR received an advance copy of the English-language version of the text.

At one point in the book, Tornielli asks Francis why God never tires of forgiving humanity.

"Because he is God, because he is mercy, and because mercy is the first attribute of God," the pope responds. "The name of God is mercy."

"There are no situations we cannot get out of, we are not condemned to sink into quicksand, in which the more we move the deeper we sink," he continues. "Jesus is there, his hand extended, ready to reach out to us and pull us out of the mud, out of sin, out of the abyss of evil into which we have fallen."

"We need only be conscious of our state, be honest with ourselves, and not lick our wounds," says Francis. "We need to ask for the grace to recognize ourselves as sinners."

The interview ends with Francis reflecting on the traditional spiritual and corporal works of mercy.

"By welcoming a marginalized person whose body is wounded and by welcoming the sinner whose soul is wounded, we put our credibility as Christians on the line," the pope says. "Let us always remember the words of Saint John of the Cross: 'In the evening of life, we will be judged on love alone.'"


https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-explains-who-am-i-judge

 

Excellent post! You are spot on when the Francis "amen corner" does not respond.

 

Never does the new church use the word sin or repentence.

 

Ok, picadillo, you win! DM's post does deserve a response because she makes a good point. However, I'm not convinced fully because the main point she was making was the poor quality of catechetical teaching she encountered. I'm also not very convinced that 'group sessions' for a topic such as sex education is appropriate. This is why a well produced booklet on the subject could be very valuable.

Above all, I am far from convinced that the best option is to leave the youth at the mercy of the media and their fellow secular friends. Of course parental guidance is best but for the most part it will not be available.