Charlie Johnston.

Praise God for your heightened conscience about war. It is hell on earth.

 

I think we will see legalised abortion North and South within the next couple of years. I don't pay much attention to Irish politics because our politicians and political parties are just puppets. Last I heard some kind of committee or review group was set up to make recommendations on this and other controversial aspects of the Constitution. It struck me that the committee or whatever it is called has a two-fold purpose: (1) to get supposed pro-life politicians off the hook by including abortion with other less controversial or more popular recommendations to amend the Constituion, and (2) to have future elections decided purely on economic issues which will leave left leaning parties at odds with each other because they range from deep red to light pink on various other issues while they all support abortion, euthanasia and the usual anti-life stuff. The recommendations, of course, will be sold on the basis that we are obliged by Europe to introduce some kind of pro-choice legisation. A ballot paper that includes, for example, an option to change how the Senate is elected, to lower the voting age for some elections and also to change or repeal the eighth amendment would result in a higher voter turnout.

Once abortion is legal in the Republic, it won't be far behind in the North. With the way the "Catholic" parties, north and south, have morphed into anti-Catholic parties, if I lived in the North I would seriously consider voting for a pro-life Unionist. At least you have a real choice when it comes to protecting the most vulnerable and most innocent of all human life. I probably won't ever vote again in either a local or general election because we have nobody worth voting for and, anyway, the real decisions are made either in Brussels or the boardrooms of multinational companies, so elections are no more than a sham.

 

I daresay you miss the point. It is precisely because of the poor innocent children who suffer under tyranny that we have just war doctrine (not "theory") -- so that evil men cannot endlessly inflict misery upon the lowly under under the freedom implicitly awarded to them by misguided "pacifists." For example, Pope Francis himself has said that we must stop ISIS.

Anyway, war can indeed be just, and killing can indeed be moral (even though the vast majority of the time they aren't). To deny either of those doctrines is against Catholic teaching. I know you mean well but we mustn't let compassion cloud clear principles.

 

Dolours, that's just about the finest post I've read since I've been here.
I think it's us, and Malta left. They will assault and barrage us till they get it in.
And the good Lord won't be happy with us....

 

The point hadnt anything to do with just war theory or doctrine or whatever it is called, Daniel. I thank you for clearing-up the differences between theories and doctrines but read the posts lad before commenting. It's too late to dig it all up again as this misguided pacificist needs his sleep. Aye. I mean well...

 

I'll take your word for it, Jack. But alas, that post of yours needed to be addressed on its own right aside from whatever context in which it came to be. (there's nothing that ISIS and the demons who inspire it would like more right now than all Christians becoming pacifists.)

Hope that's okay

 

Yes, the just war doctrine is there for a reason, although I believe that there is talk of changing it.

While I appreciate Jackzokay's distress at the tragic deaths of innocent Palestinian children, I think he is wrong to place most of the blame on Israel, although Israel along with others is certainly culpable. The advent of ISIS cured me of being supportive of the Palestinians. Israel, the USA, Turkey, Saudi, Qatar and most Sunni States wanted regime change in Syria and a personnel change in the Iraqi leadership. They used the Muslim Brotherhood to arm Syrian insurgents (Al Nusra and myriad Islamist groups that developed into ISIS). HAMAS has ties with the Muslim Brotherhood. As ISIS moved in convoy over open countryside from Syria into Iraq, HAMAS conveniently launched rockets into Israel, knowing that their rockets would have little effect against Israel's defence system and also knowing what the Israeli response would be. True to form, Israel reduced Palestinian neighbourhoods to rubble with terrible loss of life of innocent Palestinian children. The world's attention was conveniently distracted from ISIS while there were the usual empty condemnations of Israel and Israel's usual response that they were constantly under attack and had a right to retaliate. ISIS went on to overpower heavily armed sections of the Iraqi army and use those arms to cause mayhem and finish the last remaining vestiges of Christianity in the Levant. The aim of getting personnel change in Iraq was successful but Russia is slowing things down in Syria.

It would take an angel from Heaven (preferably not Charlie's angel) to convince me that the whole sorry affair wasn't orchestrated by power brokers who claim to be sworn enemies yet co-operate when it suits them. If the Palestinians can't see how they are being used and abused, their children will never see peace. They need to kick out HAMAS or any other group launching rockets in a vague hope that one might get past Israel's Iron Dome system. The difference between the Middle Eastern Christians and the Palestinian Muslims is that the Christians don't sacrifice their own children to garner sympathy for their plight. While my heart goes out to the unfortunate children in Palestine, I doubt very much that the Palestinian Muslims have an iota of compassion for the Yazidis and Christians of Iraq and Syria.

 

Dave,

Harper is using what we used to call, whilst I was a HQ Staff Weenie in the Old AF, the "Baffle Them with Bull S***" Tactic! When your argument is weak or when you are on the defensive you produce vast amounts "Documents" and "Proof" that is obviously full of holes on close inspection and/or opinions based on ... well! ... BS.
Harper is on a Quest and SHE simply fails to realize that her efforts have only increased Charlie's "FootPrint" around here.
Folks "Over-There" don't remember the old Energizer Battery Ads but many here may remember the Energizer Bunny ......... SHE just keeps Going! ... n ... Going!!
Perhaps going back to one of my early theories .... SHE is really Charlie's Double-Agent

GOD SAVE ALL HERE!!

 

It's okay with me Daniel. And I'm sure it's okay with the fella that sits in a room, flying a drone loaded with rockets and missiles and other weapons of just war theory - sorry doctrine, he's just grand altogether....he pushes his little button, obliterates several families and then orders his Big Mac and fries with a large Coke. Oh, jeez, perhaps that should be a Diet Coke! My bad. Yeah, he's sticking right in there with the just war theory - sorry again, just war DOCTRINE.
After the slaughter, he danders outside....the suns shining as he smokes his Marlboro and he's thinking ...maybe I might grab a cold beer on the way home. Maybe I might shoot some pool. Yeah, life's good baby! I love this just war theory, dang...I mean just war doctrine.

However, something tells me that the 10 year old who's just lost his entire family and his left arm and his big toe may, JUST MAY - disagree with the just war theory, SORRY, doctrine. Or, maybe he's thinking those damned ISIS and their demons inspired this....
Alternatively, he may think to himself... I'm going to sign up to an organisation so I can get my revenge!

Equally, the Jewish youngster who loses his family in a rocket attack, well, he can't wait for conscription to gain his revenge on those damned Palestinians !
And on and on and on it goes...

I don't have solutions but if hiding behind just war doctrine (I got it at last!) is the best we can offer, well why not just drop a couple nukes like last time and sort it all out. I know a fella with a penchant for Big Macs that would do the job with his drone. Kill em all. Yeah baby!

Tell me someone, somewhere gets the picture?! Prrrlleaseeee !
Violence begets violence.
Why can't people see this?

 

Idealist...it's not like we don't see it.

Your childish words about drones killing innocent people do happen but it is the exception not the norm. You do have a touch of MMM... but that person was more anti-Israel.

So my question to you is what is the answer?

Brother al

 

I get the picture Jackzokay! So does the visionary Mirjana Soldo, she speaks a lot about it in her book "My Heart will Triumph". She also thinks that may be one of the reasons The Blessed Virgin chose Medjugorje and Rwanda, as she always asks for prayers for peace. I can't hardly imagine her believing in the war doctrine either. Now just watch the attacks I get for saying anything, best to just let the sleepy heads sleep Jackzokay, trust me. Your persistance is the ONLY reason I even bothered to reply.

 

Seriously, I know what the answer isn't! ...and that's the killing of more people, as some - on this Christian site, seem to advocate as a solution. That's like Christ saying 'hit adultresses with bigger bricks, that'll stop their oul carry on '.

Let me ask YOU a question, fallen saint. How has the policy of murder/killing in retaliation to murder/killing been working-out, toward resolving further conflict in these troubled areas? You think it's been resolving the issues these past few decades?

One last thing, just because there aren't drones dropping bombs and rockets in your street, doesn't make it "childish" for someone to find it repulsive. And I'm not this MMM. I mean, REALLY?! And you call me childish!!

 

Your sarcasm reveals yourself, jack. I never said anything about drones, diet cokes, big macs, Israel, or Palestine. All I did was reiterate a basic tenant of Church Teaching. Luckily for you and other pacifists, I and others like me own a gun and will gladly use it to defend you against an unjust aggressor if that is the only way I can defend you, even if you are too misguided to defend yourself. And if you are too foolish to thank me on this side of the grave, I assure you that you will thank me on Judgment Day.

Lily -- if you think that Our Lady would choose to not believe in a Doctrine of the Church, then you understand neither Our Lady nor the Church.

 

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding here, Jack. You seem to think I have come here to defend Israel's current approach and/or drone killings. Quite the contrary, I have said nothing whatsoever about either issue. I merely came onto this thread to point out some unfortunate implicit and explicit Doctrinal errors being asserted.

Finally, all involved: please remember that Just War Doctrine does not mean that all wars are just. Goodness, no. It merely means that it is a possibility. I'm not defending any specific war. Although I will say, without hesitation, that force must be used immediately to stop ISIS, so as to stop the killing of innocents that they will continue to undertake until they are stopped.

 

So, should we allow the extermination of Christians and minorities in the Middle East?

If yes, then you are out of touch.

If no, what is the answer?

Brother al

 

Fair point on the sarcasm.

But the point remains Daniel, there ARE in fact lads sitting in offices munching on Big Macs and firing sophisticated weaponary in far flung places, wiping out whole areas, killing people indiscriminately ...women, children. By implication the well thought out Just war doesn't come into it! It's defunct in these situations.
Killing has become an ideology, and people make arguments for to justify it.

Don't you see, things have gotten out of hand. What is coming next? Robots, humanoids, hybrids, whatever they're called....weaponary that can fir 1000 bullets a second etc etc. Should a modern invading army approache, what will your gun do in the face of it's high tech, modern warfare capabilities? Neighbourhoods can be wiped-out at the push of a button, Daniel. You may feel safe with your gun but I don't.

Don't you see how far things have gone? We need to get away from killing and high-5ing over it.
How do you feel things have worked out in the Middle East with this eye for an Eye policy, Daniel? You think it's been working out okay over there?

 

The killing of woman and children seems to be the tactics of ISIS.

But I guess you won't mention those people eating lamb and riding camels. Sarcasm

I think you are bias and a touch of racist.

By the way I don't like Big Macs but I tolerate Mac.

Brother al

 

Of course things have gotten horribly out of hand; and indeed what we really need today are voices promoting peace, not voices promoting war.

All I'm saying is let's be careful to keep our principles crystal clear in the midst of all this chaos

God Bless,
Daniel

 

"We" !?!?

What should "we" do?!

Are you over there right now overseeing the freedom of Christians?

...perhaps you're sitting in an office, flying a drone? Or are you driving a tank? Or you're right out there in the desert taking the battle to ISIS....

Or are you in the kitchen, like me, peeling the spuds?

"We"! lol

 

No answer...just like all your other nonsense. You can dish it out but you can't take it.

No, I am not a fighter
...but my friend is the head of security at the Iraqi embassy and my brother in law did two wars and three tours of duties in the horrid sand.

So if I say "we" I am sorry but you have all this propaganda/talking points with no answers.

Good luck