I just read through the thread and there really weren't many trying to address the concern. It seems that the only answer on it is that the visionary lied, either faked the apparition or still was aware of her surroundings, and then either lied about not being aware of her surroundings or lied again with her story about what had happened... is that accurate? Personally I'd like an answer that would address this concern, as it was the final straw in my discernment process of Medjugorje.
No, that is not accurate. We do not know if Vicka was quoted accurately. There are blatant errors that were reported in the video, so that makes all statements made by the narrator suspect. See #15 of this thread http://motheofgod.com/threads/wayne-weible-has-passed-away.11947/#post-207505
Her answer was recorded and available audibly. You can find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=7FjFrEy113w Here's the best translation I could find on the web, if there are any native speakers here I'd be interested your thoughts on it: "So, Ivica, I was on my knees here. I saw him (Jean-Louis) only when I entered. The girl (being with Jean-Louis) was there and he was there. Wait! He was there. The girl here. I was on my knees here. And I was praying. Afterwards I saw nothing, neither him nor Pervan, nobody. I have not seen anything. Once, when the Madonna was narrating her life to me, when the Virgin showed me the Child Jesus in her arms, he bended so, while she was holding Jesus, I thought he would slip. But I did not see anyone here. Only, she has showed me the little baby. Yes, it is so, I was only afraid that the child was slipping. It was so, she kept her hand so. He was there, as if I was going to take him."
Thanks for your reply. I agree with you.... the messages are meant to help us and I believe have helped many people; but the video clearly shows questionable behavior from one of the seers and her reason for her behavior throws red flags in my opinion.
Does this mean that Vicka saw the Baby Jesus on the day that the videographer was taping her or was she telling about a different day? Also, an infant bending in your arms is different from someone nearly dropping a child. Have you ever held an infant, who has bent toward someone or something lower than themselves and you have had to use another hand to steady the baby? Perhaps Vicka saw the baby Jesus bending toward her. How many apparitions of the Virgin Mary has the Catholic Church approved of since video camera technology has become available? I just know of Kibeho....are there any others? In terms of the level of responsiveness of a visionary in an ecstatic state, that depends on the level that God determines, not man. I think the Kibeho visionaries were able to process outside questions from the pilgrims during their ecstasy....I also think Lucia of Fatima was able to ask the Virgin Mary questions from the people gathered around during her apparition.
Looks to me that the finger was well withdrawn before the movement of the head. She didn't move when the finger was almost at her eye, which is what one would expect normally.
Regardless of the statements made by the narrator....why did Vicka and her handler feel like they needed to explain her actions? I believe if she was in an ecstatic state of mind she wouldn't have flinched.
The blink occured after the finger is withdrawn. If a finger was to go towards your eye I suspect you would move your head and blink before it reached your eye. The movement & blink actually occur after the finger was withdrawn Look -finger at the eye - no blink, no movement -- I took a still shot at the point of entry -- Anyway there were many hours of scientific tests that indicated the authenticity of the experiences.
Yea if a finger was to go towards my eye I believe I would blink and move my head back, unless I was in ecstasy communicating with the mother of God.
You may have also said the same thing about Lucia of Fatima, if the same experiment was done on her with motion picture technology recording the whole experiment.
this fact of having blinked should be preceded by a discussion of the internal mechanism of private revelations. For example. Is it possible to see Our Lady without being in ecstasy? Yes, this already happened many times. is it possible that during an ecstatic vision that there is some interference of the material and spiritual planes, something like a gray zone between the two? I've seen these things happen when at other apparitions the seers even in ecstazy wrote messages with pens and which indicated that they were in an area between the two worlds. this winking issue to me is the most insignificant of all, and I'm amazed to a lack of discussion of the theological foundations of private revelations, judging such a big subject by a wink. There would have many details and minutiae to be discussed in this subject. Many physiological and psychological questions and their relations with the preternatural plane and also with the supernatural plane. I only know that the apparitions of medjugorje is the central apparition that will dictate the events of the end times.
I agree. The thing is I do not need that type of proof to convince me of Fatima's authenticity. It's Church approved and it has had prophecies fulfilled.
And if you were in ecstacy communicating with the Mother of God would you eat grass if she asked you to? https://www.biographyonline.net/spiritual/bernadette-soubirious.html
And why after almost 40 yrs of apparitions, there hasn't been even a hint of supernatural characteristics demonstrated during an apparition. We're talking about decades of messages that seem to repeat themselves with no physical proof like for example.... The Miracle of the Sun and the Miracle Host of Garabandal.
Yeap.. I would; but I think its safe to say the Mother of God wouldn't ask me to eat grass , just as I believe she wouldn't ask me to catch Jesus that she just dropped......
But she said in her account that she didn't see anything and wasn't aware of anyone around her... Also I never said I judged the apparitions on a wink, only that it was the last straw for me. I agree that there are much more weightier reasons to doubt than this. I also don't think it is insignificant, as to me it shows someone who is supposedly receiving heavenly apparitions as being untruthful here. If that is the case that does not bode well for her claims of seeing apparitions at other times.
Well she asked Bernadette of Lourdes to eat grass & she did -- and her face was covered in mud. She was a laughing stock.
But Bernadette went through the actions of eating grass. Her behavior matched what she reported in the apparition. Vicka flinched backwards and blinked as she kept on praying. That's the opposite of what the reaction should be, and what she said she did, of trying to stop Our Lord as a baby falling.
