I deeply respect the TLM and sympathize with those who feel that our current Holy Pontiff is leaving them out to dry. But Michael Voris' critique is thorough and convincing. I must note that though this clip was re-released this month, it originates prior to Pope Francis. Michael Voris does not deny the legitimacy of the FSSP; only that of the Society of Pius X. It makes me wonder how Taylor Marshall would respond. Safe in the Barque of Peter.
This is very clear and concise and troubling for those who have received the sacraments from SSPX. Especially confessions and marriages. Very very disturbing. Disobedience is disobedience. This clarifies a lot of questions.
The thing is without SSPX the Extraordinary form of the Mass would not have been preserved. FSSP came into the fold from SSPX. In my opinion Archbishop Lefebvre may have single handedly preserved the Latin Mass. Sometimes I have leanings towards SSPX but I go to a Diocesan Latin Mass. Michael Virus is to tough on SSPX in my opinion from the beginning and many times has been wrong about them.
Didn’t watch the whole thing. But it seems a bit outdated - for example: The SSPX do have faculties for valid confession. I’m not a member of the society, but I’m content letting God sort it out. Not sure if friendly fire is helpful at this point in the Church’s history.
Everything you mention, I agree wholeheartedly with. I have never been a fan of the person you call Michael Virus, even before I joined an SSPX parish. I must say I could never stand him and can't watch a full hour of him, this is why I can't address the substance of this video. He always seemed a bit full of himself, to say the least. At the time I left FSSP and joined SSPX (for the sole reason of schooling our son), I was aware that he had a campaign going against SSPX. Strangely, that campaign did not take off. But it had bitter content and I was prepared to become an outcast in the wider community because of the content of this campaign and my association with the SSPX. To me it seems Michael V. has an agenda, to attack the SSPX. People I follow include Fr. Mark Goring, Kanal Pater Pio, lately Mark Mallett, LifeSiteNews, to name just a few examples. Archbishop Vigano and Bishop Schneider I consider prophets of our time, in particular regarding the vaccination campaign and other aspects of our current society. As far as I recall, they have both spoken rather favorably of the SSPX. I think the passing of time and the current situation of the Holy Catholic Church indicate that Archbishop Lefebvre was correct, a prophet of sorts.
Regarding the headline, I wanted to say I struggle with the term 'traditionalist'. I think as Catholics we are all traditionalists, since our religion is based on tradition among other things, and modernism has been declared a heresy. I suppose you chose this term to address people who attend the Traditional Latin Mass, for lack of a better word. So be it, I count myself in, although I do think the term has certain negative undertones and a bit of a ring of division to it. That said, I am sure you did not mean any offence, so I take no offence. I wholeheartedly agree with your deep respect for the TLM. Moreover, I actually think that a return to tradition is the only way forward for the Holy Catholic Church (not only in terms of liturgy), and people will eventually realise that, once these dark days are over and the prophesized and prayed for Holy Pontiff (according to Our Lady of Good Success) has taken the reigns.
In using the term traditionalist, I usually refer to the Latin Mass, but I would consider members of MOG as orthodox in their beliefs, whether they attend the TLM or Novus Ordo.
I do not trust Voris and no longer watch him for many reasons, his numerous errors regarding the SSPX not least among them. At one time he had a Catholic forum as part of his Church Militant efforts, and I was a moderator there. I quit in protest over his unjust attacks against the SSPX, though I am not a member of the SSPX and I’ve only been to their chapels six or eight times over many years.
We had some discussions on this forum before regarding the SSPX and I have given this more thought. I had previously said that the SSPX have taken a stance of disobedience to preserve the TLM but I thought they are not schismatic. Having lately read the actual letter 'Ecclesia Dei' by St. JP II, I must correct myself. According to St. JP II, the SSPX are schismatic. This is of course not a good position to be in. In fact, I can understand the grave concerns AED raised regarding the SSPX. I wasn't aware of the full content of the Ecclesia Dei letter before joining an SSPX parish, I was negligent not to have read that beforehand. Having said that, I would note: - As I understand, St. JP II himself (whom I admire) has performed clandestine consecrations of priests for Poland because he considered it necessary and prudent due to cold-war circumstances; - the schooling of children provided by the SSPX is excellent academically, theologically, morally, culturally and in terms of comradery, charity and discipline - I have never seen so holy a grade school in modern times; - the parish we attend is truly Christian - we have been welcomed so warmly, found so many friends and strong support: even in hardship, as we speak a group of support is forming for those affected by the latest government-overreach mandates; - my wife has come out of her shell and made some great friends, she has a strong support network including women equally affected by what is troubling her; - I also have found a strong support network; every time I miss a boxing afternoon for example, my friends text me to see how I am; people have volunteered to cut some trees on our property (and this gives me a chance to contribute some firewood to the parish for those who cannot work anymore due to government mandates, so finally I can give back a little) - people are truly determined to consecrate their life to our Lord and Mother Mary; the personal holiness I encountered in this parish is exemplary and very motivating, and simply wonderful; - the holy liturgy is beautiful, including Gregorian Chant etc., for example next Sunday we have a Christ the King procession around the suburb again; - the parish priests go out of their way for their flock; they all work to exhaustion, they sacrifice themselves entirely and without reservation for their parishioners, they are role models in terms of personal holiness and, for example, strong supporters of me as spiritual directors and confessors so I can improve and slowly overcome my vices and grow in holiness little by little, our priests even provide marriage counselling to my wife and me (and I must admit we are difficult cases and that is an understatement); - etc. Lots of fun, too. Last Sunday we had a sports day in the parish. Last Saturday night our local holy sisters had a guild night including traditional (Irish!) dance and instrument performances as their holy order is celebrating an anniversary. A truly amazing parish. So, I am in two minds. I realise the severe dangers, and I can't deny the substantial canonical problems. That said, I am personally very happy in this parish and so is my family and I feel we have found our place. I hope one day the SSPX will be truly and fully re-established canonically, alongside a wider return to tradition in the Holy Catholic Church both liturgically and in terms of moral teachings. I can imagine this to be the case with the Holy Prelate as prophesized by Our Lady of Good Success.
I'm an Indult Traditionalist. I love Catholic Tradition, and I support the Fraternity of St. Peter. I also recognize much of the good that the SSPX has done, and I pray for the day for the day they are fully reconciled with Rome. His Holiness Pope St. John Paul II the Great made great efforts to reconcile the Fraternity with the Church. The Apostolic Letter of 1988 mentioned by Michael Pio is a good read: https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/...ii_motu-proprio_02071988_ecclesia-dei_en.html "APOSTOLIC LETTER "ECCLESIA DEI" OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF JOHN PAUL II GIVEN MOTU PROPRIO 1. With great affliction the Church has learned of the unlawful episcopal ordination conferred on 30 June last by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, which has frustrated all the efforts made during the previous years to ensure the full communion with the Church of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X founded by the same Mons. Lefebvre. These efforts, especially intense during recent months, in which the Apostolic See has shown comprehension to the limits of the possible, were all to no avail.(1) 2. This affliction was particularly felt by the Successor Peter to whom in the first place pertains the guardianship of the unity of the Church,(2) even though the number of persons directly involved in these events might be few. For every person is loved by God on his own account and has been redeemed by the blood of Christ shed on the Cross for the salvation of all. The particular circumstances, both objective and subjective in which Archbishop Lefebvre acted, provide everyone with an occasion for profound reflection and for a renewed pledge of fidelity to Christ and to his Church. 3. In itself, this act was one of disobedience to the Roman Pontiff in a very grave matter and of supreme importance for the unity of the church, such as is the ordination of bishops whereby the apostolic succession is sacramentally perpetuated. Hence such disobedience - which implies in practice the rejection of the Roman primacy - constitutes a schismatic act.(3) In performing such an act, notwithstanding the formal canonical warning sent to them by the Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops on 17 June last, Mons. Lefebvre and the priests Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta, have incurred the grave penalty of excommunication envisaged by ecclesiastical law.(4) 4. The root of this schismatic act can be discerned in an incomplete and contradictory notion of Tradition. Incomplete, because it does not take sufficiently into account the living character of Tradition, which, as the Second Vatican Council clearly taught, "comes from the apostles and progresses in the Church with the help of the Holy Spirit. There is a growth in insight into the realities and words that are being passed on. This comes about in various ways. It comes through the contemplation and study of believers who ponder these things in their hearts. It comes from the intimate sense of spiritual realities which they experience. And it comes from the preaching of those who have received, along with their right of succession in the episcopate, the sure charism of truth".(5) But especially contradictory is a notion of Tradition which opposes the universal Magisterium of the Church possessed by the Bishop of Rome and the Body of Bishops. It is impossible to remain faithful to the Tradition while breaking the ecclesial bond with him to whom, in the person of the Apostle Peter, Christ himself entrusted the ministry of unity in his Church.(6) 5. Faced with the situation that has arisen I deem it my duty to inform all the Catholic faithful of some aspects which this sad event has highlighted. a) The outcome of the movement promoted by Mons. Lefebvre can and must be, for all the Catholic faithful, a motive for sincere reflection concerning their own fidelity to the Church's Tradition, authentically interpreted by the ecclesiastical Magisterium, ordinary and extraordinary, especially in the Ecumenical Councils from Nicaea to Vatican II. From this reflection all should draw a renewed and efficacious conviction of the necessity of strengthening still more their fidelity by rejecting erroneous interpretations and arbitrary and unauthorized applications in matters of doctrine, liturgy and discipline. To the bishops especially it pertains, by reason of their pastoral mission, to exercise the important duty of a clear-sighted vigilance full of charity and firmness, so that this fidelity may be everywhere safeguarded.(7) However, it is necessary that all the Pastors and the other faithful have a new awareness, not only of the lawfulness but also of the richness for the Church of a diversity of charisms, traditions of spirituality and apostolate, which also constitutes the beauty of unity in variety: of that blended "harmony" which the earthly Church raises up to Heaven under the impulse of the Holy Spirit. b) Moreover, I should like to remind theologians and other experts in the ecclesiastical sciences that they should feel themselves called upon to answer in the present circumstances. Indeed, the extent and depth of the teaching of the Second Vatican Council call for a renewed commitment to deeper study in order to reveal clearly the Council's continuity with Tradition, especially in points of doctrine which, perhaps because they are new, have not yet been well understood by some sections of the Church. c) In the present circumstances I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. Everyone should be aware that formal adherence to the schism is a grave offence against God and carries the penalty of excommunication decreed by the Church's law.(8) To all those Catholic faithful who feel attached to some previous liturgical and disciplinary forms of the Latin tradition I wish to manifest my will to facilitate their ecclesial communion by means of the necessary measures to guarantee respect for their rightful aspirations. In this matter I ask for the support of the bishops and of all those engaged in the pastoral ministry in the Church."
What has Taylor Marshall done to attract what seems lately to be a co-ordinated attack on him? Aren't there worse problems the Church than the canonical status of the SSPX and Taylor Marshall drawing attention to the increasing irreverence and outright paganism at Masses? I don't attend the TLM but I drive past four or five churches to go to a reverent Novus Ordo Mass where I can kneel to receive Communion. I admire some things Taylor Marshall has done such as his series on the Book of Revelation. I can take him or leave him but I'm getting rather tired of Catholics inferring that he is not quite Catholic enough for them. As to what he would say about the Church Militant video, maybe he would tell Michael Voris that going to SSPX Masses is the best option for families with young children until they can be guaranteed that they and their children won't have to suffer through abuses like these: The opening Mass for the Synodal process in San Bernardino: A priest in Philadelphia using the pulpit to push covid vaccines for children: There are plenty more examples on that Complicit Clergy website that would leave any parent wondering whether irregular canonical status is preferable to sacrilege or secular political brainwashing. And that's not counting being locked out of Mass or refused Communion on the tongue during the covid restrictions, not to mention the clear signals coming from his inner circle that what you see in those videos is what Pope Francis and many Bishops want the Mass to become - an exercise in amateur dramatics with a party political broadcast. Taylor Marshall actually has a video about that Synod Mass in San Bernardino. You only have to read the comments to see that irreverent Masses are not as rare as SSPX bashers would have us believe. The occult/pagan practices seem to be common enough. All very well telling people to find a parish where the lunatics haven't taken over the asylum but parents of young families have a responsibility to protect their children from the overall influence that comes with such irreverence. It includes schools, the type of people their children are mixing with, etc. Maybe the solution is to eradicate the abuses in the NO but that won't happen while people like Taylor Marshall and so-called rad trads are a convenient distraction.
