I love having the separate pro and con threads. With debating or arguing, as I see it, it doesn't give you as much true info and we end up getting gaslit. Love the copy and pasting.
To mark the 1900th anniversary of the crucifixion, the Catholics of Medjugorje decided to erect a cross at a local highpoint (since known as Krizevac - Cross Hill). This was a tremendous undertaking due to the lack of machinery to haul the massive stones from the valley to the peak. In that same year, the very first pilgrims visited. This was a group of Polish students with their chaplain. The chaplain took the students because he said that he had been informed that Our Lady was going to bless this place in a particular way and that millions of Catholics would eventually come to that place to honour Her Son and Herself. This comes from an account of the pilgrimage written by one of the surviving students, by then an old man, in the early days of the apparitions. Interestingly, Hitler came to power in that same year. I consider that 1933 might well have been the start of the hundred years of Satan's free hand to attempt to destroy the Church foretold by Pope Leo XIII. If I am correct, then we might expect growing and eventually extreme chaos in the Church and the world in the coming eight years as Satan's special licence comes to a close. As to whether the apparitions are true or not, we merely have to wait for the 'secrets' to be disclosed to establish the honesty of those involved. To judge the visionaries and the local priests to be deluded and/or malicious and the millions of pilgrims, including thousands of priests and bishops, to be knowingly and gravely disobedient seems a little less than generous and is certainly debateable.
Father Vlasic was excommunicated and laisized. Another one suspended for disobedience. These are facts. To share the facts that are readily available online and on very reputable sights is ok to do. There is nothing wrong with telling the truth of the beginnings of Medjugorge.
But what if it’s simply true? No one is judging here, just providing verifiable (if inconvenient) facts that are otherwise suppressed. Any conjecture beyond that is simply rational conclusions based on those inconvenient facts - if they are indeed real verifiable facts. That the Franciscans involved from the start were disobedient to the bishop, often lead immoral lives (fathering children) and / or had ulterior motives is very well documented and those assertions would stand up in a court of law. And did stand up in Vatican courts to the point several of them were defrocked. They were the ones who created this phenomena to press their war with and on their bishop(s).
This is an untruth. Father Jozo Zovko was not defrocked. The author of the screed you posted included zero footnotes. Are we to take her at her venomous word that what she writes is factual?
Google it... you better not be talking about me... it's already been discussed a page or 2 back. I found catholic news sites with the facts...feel free to Google it
Catholic News agency Former spiritual director of 'Medjugorje visionaries' excommunicated A statue of Our Lady in Medjugorje, Bosnia and Herzegovina. / Gnuckx via Flickr (CC BY 2.0). CNA Staff, Oct 23, 2020 / 16:48 pm A laicized priest who had been the spiritual director to six people who said they experienced visions of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Bosnian town of Medjugorje has been excommunicated. Tomislav Vlasic, who had been a Franciscan priest until he was laicized in 2009, was excommunicated July 15 by a decree of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in the Vatican. The excommunication was announced this week by the Diocese of Brescia, Italy, where the laicized priest lives. The Brescia diocese said that since his laicization, Vlasic "has continued to carry out apostolic activities with individuals and groups, through conferences and online; he has continued to present himself as a religious and priest of the Catholic Church, simulating the celebration of sacraments." The diocese said Vlasic has been the source of "serious scandal to Catholics," by disobeying the directives of ecclesiastical authorities. When he was laicized, Vlasic was forbidden from teaching or engaging in apostolic work, and especially from teaching about Medjugorje. He was in 2009 accused of teaching false doctrine, manipulating consciences, disobeying ecclesiastical authority, and of committing acts of sexual misconduct. A person who is excommunicated is prohibited from receiving the sacraments until the penalty has been lifted.
I was not referring to you, Agnes. I started to read the first post in this thread Medjugorje: A Cult Exposed Medjugorje by Jane Stannus I found a blatant lie in the post regarding Father Jozo Zovko. I am writing to state that what Jane Stannus stated in her piece has no citations, it's bits and pieces of scandal that she laced together. No need to write back, Agnes, you have your own opinion and I have mine. I wouldn't let stand the lie from the article that Father Jozo Zovko was defrocked.
He was suspended for longstanding disobedience, not defrocked. Disobedience to ecclesial authority is one of the “fruits” the Church examines to determine the authenticity of a claimed Marian apparition. It’s footnoted in the subsequent posted article: 8. http://www.marcocorvaglia.com/medjugorje-en/father-jozo-a-disobedient-franciscan.html. In the text of Fr. Zovko’s suspension, the Bishop of Mostar, Ratko Peric, states the reasons for the suspension being “to defend this local Church from your abuse, whilst not entering into the religious discipline of your congregation, and having in mind your constant disobedience in this local Church and your lack of respect towards the decisions of the Diocesan Bishops.”
Find a citation for this one, Brian. She infers that Franciscans kidnapped Bishop Peric. Another slander On 1 April 1995, Perić was kidnapped by Croatian militiamen of the HVO in Mostar after he tried to replace Franciscan monks with diocesan priests who are less nationalistic, bishop and his security are released after 8 hours. https://alchetron.com/Ratko-Perić As moderator, you shouldn't be posting articles that are slanderous no matter how strongly you feel about a subject. It brings the whole credibility of the forum into question.
Here is a brief summary of the canonical status of the Medjugorje phenomenon In 1981, six children in Medjugorje reported seeing apparitions of the Virgin Mary, and the site has since become a popular pilgrimage destination. In 1991, the Yugoslavian bishops issued a finding of "not established as supernatural," and in 2010, Pope Benedict XVI established a commission to study the Medjugorje phenomenon, which was active until 2014. In May 2019, the Vatican officially authorized pilgrimages to Medjugorje, acknowledging the faith and pastoral needs of the pilgrims, while emphasizing that this approval was not intended to signify recognition of the apparitions. On September 19, 2024, the Vatican granted Medjugorje the status of "Nulla Osta" (Nihil Obstat), encouraging pilgrimages to Medjugorje for devotion to the Queen of Peace, but not entering into the question of the alleged Marian apparitions.
The Franciscans did NOT personally kidnap him but they let the kidnappers use their chapel: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/lit...th-murderous-history-near-medjugorje-1.592692 And it is inferred the militants were acting on the behalf and urging of the Franciscans. I wholeheartedly disagree with your misapplication of the word slander in regard to the author and I thoroughly reject your implication I’m posting slanderous articles. The credibility of those who defend these Franciscans’ actions is called into question, not mine. These Franciscans have been gaslighting faithful Catholics and their naive credulity long enough.
The website you linked is very interesting. I was not aware of all the real estate investments of the 'seers'. However, this ties somewhat with my own impression from my visit to Medjugorje in 2014. To me, the disobedience of the 'seers' against church authorities (namely the local Bishop) in the 1980ies is telling. I am skeptical about whether the Mother of God is appearing in Medjugorje.
I have no doubts on it... My info is true and it involved Pope Benedict with the laization and the suspensions. I remember when these things happened. I have no desire to even mention the seers. But yes my conscience is clear.. just Google Pope Benedict and Father Vlasic. So many good articles available but I'm not going to waste my time.
I think people forget that Vlasic has now started his own “church” (cult), and also claims to receive messages from “Heaven”.
It was widely reported about the Franciscans involved. Vatican courts were involved. Priests directly responsible for the origin of the phenomena were suspended and defrocked. No other Church approved apparitions ever had this kind of behavior among so many of those directly associated with the supposed visionaries. The weight of evidence is on our side. We can safely make these conclusions.
