If I write a third fake secret for you with the words of the Catechism you quoted which matches what Cardina Ciappi said are you going to believe it. And if you don't, can I accuse you of not following catholic church teaching? lol
Behold PNF, I just found the real third secret of Fatima and you must believe it because it references everything you mentioned earlier. It came from my secret operative in the Papal Office. The Third Part of the Secret Given by Our Lady at Tuy and Fatima Revealed in full only now by divine permission“… And after the two parts which I have already explained, we saw on the left hand of Our Lady, a little higher than her outstretched palm, an Angel holding in his left hand a flaming sword; the flames seemed about to set the world on fire, but they died out upon contact with the splendor that Our Lady radiated from her right hand. Pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance! Penance! Penance!’ And we saw, in an immense light that is God, something similar to how souls appear in a mirror when they pass before it: a Bishop dressed in white who seemed to be the Holy Father, climbing a steep mountain made of broken stones and human bones. Along with him were other bishops, priests, men and women religious, all weeping and dragging themselves painfully toward the summit, where stood a rough-hewn Cross of uncorked tree trunks. Before reaching the Cross, the Holy Father passed through a great city half in ruins, trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, praying for the souls of the corpses he met along the way. Having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the Cross, he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the bishops, priests, religious men and women, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels, each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way toward God. Then Our Lady spoke with great sadness: ‘In the time that remains before the great chastisement, Satan will enter even to the summit of My Son’s Church. A great apostasy will spread across the world, beginning from the highest places. Many pastors will betray the flock entrusted to them, loving themselves more than the Good Shepherd. They will permit every error to be taught in the sanctuaries, and the Holy Sacrifice will be profaned in countless ways. The faith will be extinguished in many nations; souls will be lost in great number because no one prays and does penance for them. My priests, My faithful children, will be despised and mocked; the house of God will be turned into a theater of vanities and confusion. False prophets will arise, performing signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. They will offer the world a false peace and a counterfeit christ who will sit in the place that belongs only to My Son. In that hour of supreme deception, the Church will follow a way that seems to solve all problems of men without the Cross, without penance, without the narrow gate. Many will adore this false light, believing they have found the true Church, while they have embraced the beast clothed as a lamb. Yet in the midst of this darkness, I will raise up a little remnant who will guard the faith of the Apostles. They will be few, scorned by the world and even by many within the Church, but they will keep the lamp of faith burning. To them I promise My Immaculate Heart as refuge and the way that will lead them safely to God. When all seems lost, when the abomination stands where it ought not, then My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father, in union with all the bishops of the world, will consecrate Russia to Me in the manner I have asked, and a period of peace will be granted to the world. But first, woe to the pastors who scatter the sheep! Woe to those who, for human respect or earthly gain, remain silent while error spreads! They will have to render an account before the throne of My Son. Pray much, My little children. Pray especially for the Holy Father, for bishops and priests. Offer sacrifices and rosaries daily. Do not be deceived by those who say “peace and security” while the faith is being destroyed from within. And remember: even if one day it should happen that the faithful have nothing left but a box of donuts and a rosary hidden beneath the floorboards, with those two things—simple faith and the prayer of My Heart—they will still be richer than all the kingdoms of this world, for they will possess the truth and the way to Heaven.’Then Our Lady became silent, and the vision faded, leaving us trembling and in tears.”
When all you can come back with is an AI generated mockery of the Blessed Mother's message, I guess that means you have admitted defeat. As I have demonstrated, the real Third Secret, has been verified to be written by the hand of Sr. Lucia. The subject matter in the real Third Secret matches that described by Cardinal Ciappi. And the overall theme is consistent with CCC 675. Are you even concerned that you might be denigrating the authentic Third Secret? Do you really think Our Lady likes to be mocked?
I didn't mock Our Lady, I merely placed you in the false dilemma of your own creation that you tried to force me into. But of course you need to change the subject instead of admitting that just because a secret contains certain information doesn't make it true. Not sure why you are so adamant in promoting this false letter. Also, you still haven't proven anything. I am still waiting on proof that the word apostasy cannot be forged in Sr. Lucia's writing. Especially since you admitted to me that it doesn't exist in her own documented writings. So there is nothing to compare it to. Your inability to provide proof is a concession.
Your attempt to distract from the key message of the true Third Secret is not going to work. Go ahead and mock all you want. Those with eyes to see will understand what Our Lady is speaking of. Our Lady wanted to warn the faithful about the "apostasy in the Church" that would be led, in the end, by an antipope. This is Bergoglio and his Synodal Church. This process would cause the migration of the true Pope (BXVI) from Rome to "Fatima." And this true Pope (who will emerge again soon), will lead the Church into its final restoration (as the remnant army who fights the battle of Armageddon) before the Second Coming. All of these events will take approximately 70 years from 1959-2029, which She refers to in her mention of Daniel, chapter 9. So prepare yourself for the Warning and its aftermath. It is going to happen very soon. No more mocking of Our Lady's prophets and their prophecies, okay?
The fact that you are insistent on promoting a false message as if it comes from Our Lady is the real mockery here. One which you cannot prove and when you get cornered on that you start throwing out false dilemmas and ad hominems.
I don't want to get involved in this debate but everything is already in the prophecy of Our Lady of Good Success which we are living through right now. I try to remember to pray more and make sacrifices. I'm not great at it but I know it's the only way to go.
The issue I have is that treading through the messages of Fatima has become unnecessarily complex and difficult because of all the false information surrounding them. So a person wading in on the subject for the first time is going to be overwhelmed in trying to find their way through them. The promotion of obviously false messages attributed to our Lady, as if they are true, adds one more layer to this complication. While the messages of Fatima have been important since we were first given them in 1917, they become more important over time to help us understand the time we are living in and what is happening around us. Muddying the waters takes away from this clarity.
I do agree. It requires considerable research to understand the Fatima messages which many people think is in fact better spent praying and doing penance and the first 5 saturdays etc. And I would like to get to the truth of the matter even if it means investigating a replacement Sr. Lucy - which I admit gives rise to even another layer of complexity. But I am prepared to jettison my personal opinion that there is a fake Sr. Lucy if that is where the evidence points. Honestly, I am not attached to being proved right but I will consider any hyothesis in the interest of getting to the truth. However, as others have pointed out, the mere consideration of this fake Sr. Lucy hypothesis can offend people especially her relatives etc. So maybe it is a sin against charity - but the matter is so important to get a proper understanding of. My other problem Lol is that I can't keep up with voluminous output from you young guys! My research is slow and possibly error prone. I am also very slow at one finger typing and struggling to format responses on a phone which sometimes does strange things with my text! I used to have a laptop and was quite fast at typing but now it is a very slow process. I do not think the 4 page letter posted by PNF is legitimate but I need to go back and consider everything again. I can't make a definitive statement and am not able for an intense session of back and forth which such interactions seem to necessitate.
I wouldn't even bother reading the back and forth between myself and PNF a single time unless it interests you. The biggest takeaway I could give you, for the sake of clarity and simplicity, is that the last part of the second secret is what we are living in now and there is no stopping it. And, there has been no stopping it since the Aurora event of January 25, 1938. Three years before the second secret was released. What is up for debate IMO, is the order the different parts after "if not" have played out, are playing out or will play out.
I don't really have a strong opinion on the fake Lucia hypothesis. Like InVeritatem, if that's where the truth is I am willing to follow it there. I do think it's plausible considering government agencies had their hands pretty deep in the affairs of the Vatican when sister Lucy reappeared. Regardless, the message of Our Lady at Fatima on a spiritual level is clear: penance and prayer for us laypeople. Now to answer your question as to whether or not the "if not" has played out, I would respond with a negative, it still has to happen. For one, we have a historical example, the story of Louis 14 failure to consecrate himself to the Sacred Heart. It was then done but too late... I wish I could find the actual letter and vision to confirm the story but I take it for fact because Sister Lucy then makes reference to it in 1929. I don't think an ignorant shepherd girl who then goes to live the life of a cloistered nun could have come to know story of France unless divinely revealed. Consecration to the Sacred Heart of Jesus Fr. Christopher Foeckler, MJ • St Josaphat Formation Center, Phoenix, AZ A little known fact of the revelations of the Sacred Heart to St. Margaret Mary is that in 1689 Jesus asked that the King of France consecrate himself and his realm to the Sacred Heart and that he adorn his flags and coat of arms with the image of His Heart. He was promised as a result to be victorious over his enemies and those of the Holy Church. The King at that time was none other than Louis XIV ‘the Sun King’ who, in spite of his many personal sins, was quite devout according to historians. He had, in fact, consecrated the realm to St. Joseph only three days after ascending to the throne some 45 years previously. But this request of the Sacred Heart went unfulfilled by him and by his son Louis XV as well. It wasn’t until more than 100 years after the revelation to St. Margaret Mary of Our Lord’s special request that the French King – the unfortunate Louis XVI – made a private consecration of himself and the realm to the Sacred Heart of Jesus in 1792. But it was too late. Louis XVI made this consecration privately as a prisoner in his own palace under the guard of the French Revolutionaries who ended his monarchy and sought his blood in the Terror that reigned in Paris. Louis had vowed to make the consecration publicly when he would be restored to power, but the guillotine dashed all hope of that when he and his wife, Marie Antoinette, were executed. Even though the kings of France had been reluctant to consecrate themselves to the Sacred Heart, many others were not, and the devotion spread within France and to other political powers of Europe with very positive results. Yet, one can wonder what would have happened if the Sun King had humbled himself and consecrated his realm to Jesus’ Heart? The rest of the story, as they say, is that in June 1929, the Fatima seer Lucia received another vision in which Our Lord told her, “Like the king of France, they will repent and do it, but it will be late. Russia will have already spread her errors throughout the world, provoking wars and persecutions of the Church; the Holy Father will have much to suffer.” Don’t hesitate to inform yourself and then consecrate yourself and your families to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate of Heart of Mary. St. Margaret Mary said, “The most efficacious way to obtain devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus is through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.” Lastly, Our Lady came back to warn us again at the Tre Fontane. This thread is great taking an in depth look at what Mary says and the parallels to Fatima. Bruno then later in his life has visions of the burning of Rome thus I still think it has yet to happen. https://motheofgod.com/threads/our-...ublished-diaries-of-bruno-cornacchiola.18449/ But what I want to point out is she appeared literally across the street from where St. Paul was martyred and I think that is significant. St. Paul, the apostle of the gentiles, the gentiles who then go on and become the main mystical body of the Church. In the Latin mass the lesson or epistle is always (I might be wrong here) from St. Paul. He was a man of action and teaches us how to behave, how to act, especially in these times.
All the pain, all the confusion, all the speculation would have been avoided had the Vatican followed the Queen’s simple, clear mandate from heaven. But it seems they had other priorities on their agenda. James 4:6: "God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble".
Trying to solve cosmic issues with secular politics. According to Malachi Martin JXXIII did not want to offend the USSR because he wanted the Russian Orthodox at the Council. I remember M. Martin saying he had pondered about and prayed about this spectacular failure of duty on the pope's part and he finally decided there simply wasn't enough grace in the world. Not enough prayer. Not enough sacrifice. So all were to blame for the Church's failure to obey the Mother of God.
The second secret, which includes the mandate from heaven requesting the first 5 Saturdays and the Consecration of Russia, was published 3.5 years after the deadline had passed. So the laity didn't even get a chance to attempt to fulfill the mandate.
I didn't realize that but I think you may be wrong because I remember keeping tbe 5 first Saturdays as a child in the 1950's. A very vivid memory.
Notice the focus of the key quote: "Like the king of France, they will repent and do it, but it will be late. Russia will have already spread her errors throughout the world, provoking wars and persecutions of the Church; the Holy Father will have much to suffer.” Our Lord did not say Russia will have blown up the world with bombs and missiles. He said "her errors" will have "spread throughout the world." Then these "errors" will provoke "wars and persecutions of the Church." And of all things, he ends with the comment about the suffering of the "Holy Father." If Jesus was talking about geopolitical wars being started by Russia and millions of people dying in wars with guns and bombs, why did he refer these "wars" to the Church? And why would his biggest focus on "the Holy Father?" The answer is because the "war" and "peace" that the prophecy is talking about is found in the Church itself, in the souls of its members, not in "the world." Fatima is not a prophecy focused on world peace. To think that it is misses the point. True Peace, the Peace of Jesus Christ, starts in the souls of those who reconcile with God by doing penance for their sins and reparation for the sins of other people. When we interpret the Fatima messages, we must think of "heavenly things" not "earthly things." The bogus Sr. Lucia and the bogus Third Secret, on the other hand, try to push people to see Fatima as merely a solution for geopolitical conflict. No, it is the solution to the original conflict talked about in Genesis 3:15: 15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
