30 years ago today...the world and thus Russia where consecrated

Bayside has been thoroughly condemned...as for Father Gruner speaking at the Bayside anniversary...this totally discredits him and "his gospel" that the Consecration of Russia has not taken place.

 

Steve...as Pope Benedict has prophesised...the Church would become smaller in numbers with the remaining having a purer faith.
How many Catholics do you know that are Catholic in name only? I would bet a good many of them. God will purify the hearts of men. The United States has become the whore of Babylon...it is so disordered in fact...that God will destroy the United States...and it will happen in your lifetime. To point a finger means 3 fingers point back at you. The day is coming when China and Africa will be Christian powerhouses. Never under estimate the power of the Holy Spirit...the deconstruction always preceeds the construction.

 

I do not see how you can conclude that Father Gruner's Fatima apostolate is now discredited because of an event he attended. Everyone knows that this has not taken place as Our Lady of Fatima requested (the pope in union with the worlds bishops together consecrating Russia [not the world] to her Immaculate Heart). He may be wrong in attending Bayside events, if they have been condemned by the Church, but that does not invalidate his Fatima apostolate. At worst it is using bad prudence to attend Bayside anniversary, as I see it has been condemned.

 

According to this logic...I as a faithful Catholic can attend a pro abortion rally. This would not invalidate my claim to be a faithful Catholic...right? One murders the soul (disobedience) the other murders the soul (disobedience) regardless of the circumstance.

 

I can't believe that you would equate abortion with attending a celebration of alleged messages, although be it false ones, with the same culpability. Abortion is an intrinsic evil, surely would not equate the two? Secondly, you seem to also allege that if a person makes an imprudent decision this would conclude that he has no bearing on other subjects as well, such as Fatima. This is absurd as well. To use this very logic on ones self you would conclude that you would either have to be 100% right/prudent on everything or you would be 100% wrong/imprudent on everything. Can you see this flawed thinking?

 

Point being...if I...being the dumb ox I am...know he is being disobedient to the Bishop and hense the Church... why would a man who's "gospel is Fatima" do so. I'm sure Father Gruner has full knowledge of what his attendance implies. If his judgement is so bad why would I lend him 2 cents worth of credibility. Sorry...no matter...can't condone disobedience.

 

I agree with you on this Fatima, Poor decision to attend Bayside rubbish. The only defense I could make would be, Fr Gruner would take his Fatima message anywhere . He would preach Our Lady of Fatima to a meeting of Masons. It doesnt mean he is one.

 

Seriously?? Uggg. THAT makes me sad. Bayside is a circus. Condemned in a huge way, but also because the seer was once a practicing occultist. Not to say they can't be converted, but all the photos and so called miracles etc...its a circus. I hate to see Fr. Gruner get involved in that. So it goes!

 

Well let's hope that he is there to convert a few of them to Our Lady of Fatima. Regardless, I don't believe in Fatima and its messages because of Father Gruner, or his Fatima Crusader magazine, but he has helped shed light on Fatima's misinformation.

 

I have a question for those who feel that Russia was consecrated 30 years ago because the whole world was consecrated and thus Russia was too. What makes it 30 years ago that this was accomplished and not say 1942 when Pope Pius XII consecrated the whole human race and thus Russia since they are human too to Mary. Why was this date not valid then but 1984 was? Do you see where I am coming from? How could it have been properly done in 1984 when not named specifically as is claimed and yet not properly have been done in 1942 when Russia was not specifically named either? This is a very simple question and thus easy to come to a simple conclusion that the consecration of Russia has therefore still not been done because to approve the consecration in 1984 and yet not approve and have included Russia in 1942 creates a contradiction now doesn't it. Contradictions, confusion and deception does not come from heaven but hell. If it has been done it would be clear to us all not only by the act itself as we would have heard Russia named or read it but also by the fruits to come from such a consecration. It is also my understanding from a little research that the 1942 consecration even had many more bishops involved than the 1984 one but still not every Bishop of every diocese along with the Pope at the same time as was requested.

 

What I cant believe is that well aware of the controversy , those who had the opportunity to have Sr Lucia support their position failed to bring her forward. If anyone who has looked into the issue has studied Cardinal Bertones explanations, on his Sr Lucia interview , Will realise they havent a leg to stand on. Cardinal Bertone was the butt of jokes at the vatican after his ridiculous appearance 0n Porta Porta [Italian News]
The laughing stock of the Curia.
He performed so poorly he had to put out a new book to support his position. A book which failed to address even one arguement .
Even Pope Benedict had to distance himself from the nonsense .


[ I welcome any debate of course]

 

Excellent quote by someone on this subject on this website:http://catholicexchange.com/ce-forum-did-the-consecration-of-russia-take-place-or-not

Here is a quote for your consideration, given in a message from Our Lady to Father Gobbi on March 25th, 1984. Please recall that Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict) had Fr Gobbi come to Rome in 1984 and investigated the Marian Movement of Priest over the Summer months. At its conclusion, his only request to Fr Gobbi was to change the name of the book from 'Our Lady speaks to Her Beloved Priests, to, To the Priests, Our Lady's Beloved Sons.' This Fr Gobbi complied with. John Paul II called for the Pontifical Approbation of the MMP and ordered the Congregation of the Clergy to prepare the way for this. Sad to relate, too many obstacles were placed in the way of the Pope's desire! The quote from the message 'I ask for the Consecration of All,' follows:

According to European intelligence, in 1984 Russia was planning to attack Europe following Reagan's installation of Pershing missiles in Europe. In October of 1984, the big Naval base on the Baltic had a massive explosion, destroying vast quantities of weapons. The Russians changed their mind. The Blessed Mother did not waste any time in keeping her promise.

" Russia is the nation, chosen by God, to chastise the nations of the world, just like He chose the Philistines to chastise the Israelites, if we do not first obtain the conversion of that poor nation." Sister Lucia.

 

ANOTHER VERY GOOD ONE!!

I wish people would wake up and smell the coffee. Go here:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PA...

Scroll down to this section:

Consecration of all Individuals and Peoples of the World
to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (1984)

Scroll down to the last paragraph of section 2, here is the paragraph I am referring to:

Mother of the Church!
Enlighten the People of God along the paths of faith, hope and love! Enlighten especially
the peoples whose consecration and entrustment by us you are awaiting. Help us to live in
the truth of the consecration of Christ for the entire human family of the modern world.

Pay particular attention to the 2nd sentence which reads (my emphasis):

ENLIGHTEN ESPECIALLY THE PEOPLES WHOSE CONSECRATION AND ENTRUSTMENT BY US YOU ARE AWAITING.

If the Consecration had been done, according the statements of the Blessed Virgin Mary, what is that sentence about? John Paul II admitted right there that the Consecration was not done.

I keep hearing how we're supposed to listen to the Pope, and how he has supreme power in the Church and all that. Strangely enough,when some people (so called "conservative Catholics) want to push their view on so called Traditionalists, they love to throw the Pope at them, but when the Pope says something the so called conservatives don't want to believe, oh well, what he said doesn't really matter.

Also, we keep being told that Sister Lucy said in 1989 that it was done. Where's the video or audio recording that proves it? All we have is a story circulated by Fr. Robert J. Fox and others CLAIMING she said it was done.

In addition, if the Consecration was really done in 1984, then 2
questions:

In 2000, what was the point of that "Entrustment" to Mary all about?

And 2nd, why didn't John Paul II just order Sister Lucy to say it was done on that occasion?

What better time? Sister Lucy could have settled the debate once and for all. But as evidenced by those who do not accept the Pope's own words on the very occasion of the so called "Consecration" which have been public knowledge for 30 years, anything Sister Lucy would have said would have been dismissed as well.

 

OHHHH! This one too!!

In 1936, (the year the terrible Moscow directed Spanish Civil War broke out), Sr. Lucia's spiritual director, Fr. Goncalves, asked her why Our Lady had specifically requested the consecration of Russia. After a great deal of prayerful petition, Jesus explained to Sr. Lucia that it was because He wants the consecration, and hence the conversion of Russia to be seen as the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and because He wants devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary to be placed alongside devotion to his Sacred Heart. This has already occurred in "embryonic" form since Blessed Pope John Paul II proclaimed the Feast of the Immaculate Heart of Mary which occurs on the following day after the Feast of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, but its full realization is yet to come, and will only be manifested in the Era of Peace.

The inescapable truth is that, had the throne of France been consecrated to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, as Jesus himself demanded, there would have been no French Revolution. Since it was the French Revolution that ultimately spawned the diabolical spirit of Marxism, then there would have been no communism, and there would have been no need for Fatima.

To "consecrate" means to set aside for God's purposes. We are assured that Russia will play a major role in the re-evangelisation of the (currently) post-Christian West, but this can only happen after the Russian Orthodox Church is re-united with Rome and this in turn can only come about by means of the collegial consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.
The conversion of Russia will come at the height of the Tribulation, and it will astound the world, and the whole world will understand by whose all-powerful mediation with God this miraculous conversion has taken place. This will completely overturn the whole train of events that was set in motion by the French Revolution, that was cause by the failure to consecrate the Throne of France to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. The world will then see the dawning of the promised Era of Peace, under the reign of the Two Hearts. Now, I ask you, how will anyone connect all of this with an essentially little known consecration of the world by Pope John Paul II some three decades or more prior to the event? The answer is, of course; they won't. Therefore, it could never be perceived by the world as the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

 

Sr. Lucia confirmed that, before the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, EVERY country on earth would fall under the communist yoke. Portuguese mystic Bl. Alexandrina da Costa was shown a scene of immense devastation and was told, "The devastation you have just seen will come about after Marxism will have taken over the WHOLE world. Sudents of Garabandal are well familiar with the prophecies concerning the Warning and the Great Miracle, (which will be the greatest miracle that God will ever work on earth). The seers of Garabandal were told by Our Lady that there would come a great persecution of the Church, during which time priests would have difficulty saying Mass, or even speaking of religion. When asked how this could happen Our Blessed lady merely replied; "Communism". She also told the children that, "Communism will come back, even to Spain".

We are told that Russia will be converted after the Miracle, which will happen within one year after the Warning. The Warning will come, "when things are at their worst" This "at their worst refers to the coming tribulation of communism, which will be a slaughter of hitherto unimagined severity. It will be mainly, though not exclusively, inflicted upon Europe; (see the prophecies of Bl. Elena Aiello). St. Padre Pio said that the price of the Miracle will be the blood of Europe; oceans of blood. It will be inflicted by Russia.

We also know from Garabandal that a pope will go to Russia, and that the communist tribulation will break out after the Holy Father returns to Rome from Moscow. The Warning will come at the height of the tribulation. It is worth considering that the consecration of Russia will not be done until we, the whole Church, have been brought to our knees and beg for God's mercy, and when those formerly indifferent, intransigent or even hostile bishops see for themselves the horrendous consequences of their past negligence. Only the terminally naive can possibly believe that the nation responsible for this unprecedented slaughter could have been consecrated as heaven demanded.

Finally, on May 13th. the Feast of Our Lady of Fatima, at his own repeated request, the pontificate of Pope Francis was conseccrated by the Cardinal Patriarch of Lisbon, and all the bishops of Portugal, to Our Lady of Fatima. If, as a relative minority of correspondents still insist, "the consecration has been done" then surely this consecration of Pope Francis' pontificate to Our Lady of Fatima is utterly superfluous to requirements. Unless it was just a publicity stunt. But somehow, I rather doubt that.

 

Jesus also told Sr. Lucia in 1931 that, "If they don't do it, they will follow the King of France into misfortune". This is a clear reference to Jesus own demand, in June 1689, that the King of France must consecrate his throne to the Sacred Heart of Jesus . Successive kings of France, from Louis XIV to Louis XVI, failed to comply, and precisely 100 years to the very day after the demand was made, the French Revolution erupted, Louis XVI was deposed, and subsequently beheaded. However, it was not just the kings of France who were negligent, but also the Jesuits who had been given the responsibility to oversee the consecration of France to the Sacred Heart. The diabolical plan for an atheistic world revolution that would seek to destroy the Church and enslave humanity came to maturity with the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917, the same year as the Fatima apparitions, and the the diabolic spirit of Marxism, the maturation of the movement set in progress in 1789 by the French revolution, established its earthly H.Q. in Moscow. Therefore, will Pope Francis, the first Jesuit pope in history, make amends for the failings of the Jesuits with regard to the consecration of France to the Sacred Heart, and finally accomplish the still-outstanding consecration of Russia?
However, we must all be mindful of the fact that Fatima is not a minority interest. The fulfillment of Heaven's invincible peace plan for the world calls for the active participation of the whole Church, because the fulfillment of Fatima and the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary will be manifested as a great victory for the Church in the promised Era of Peace. Therefore, we all have a huge stake in Fatima, for our own sakes, for the sake of our children, and for the sake of the whole world.

 

cool!!!

 

First and foremost, it was not Cardinal Ratzinger who disclosed the confirmation from Sister Lucia that the Consecration had be done in 1984, in the commentary published by the Holy See in 2000. It was then Archbishop Bertone, who wrote an opinion prior to the actual commentary by Cardinal Ratzinger authorized by John Paul II on May 13th, 2000. This claim by the Archbishop is from his visit to Sister Lucia in 1989 when, as he has claimed, Sister Lucia made this affirmation to his question.
In his book, The Last Visionary, he also claimed that Sister Lucia admitted to him that Our Lady did not suggest that the Secret may not be revealed until 1960; but that she herself had picked the date. Ergo, Sister Lucia is an unreliable witness.
Secondly, it should be noted that there were three Acts of Entrustment, a phrase chosen by John Paul II according to the Archbishop in the Commentary. In 1981, 1982 and 1984. Incidentally, another Act of Entrustment was done by John Paul II in October 2000.
On May 13th,2000, Cardinal Sodarno, Secretary of State, in announcing the soon to be released Secret, changed the words of Sister Lucia with the notorious words, "he too falls to the ground, as if dead, under a burst of gunfire." He cemented his opinion of the message into the future by then claiming that the shooting referred to the 1981 attempted assassination of John Paul II. He went on to say that it appears that Fatima now belongs to the past. Neatly done, Emminence! (but remember Benedict XVI said later at Fatima, "WE HAVE NOT HEARD THE LAST OF FATIMA!"-marti-)

Sister Lucia's words referring to the Holy Father are as follows: "having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees in front of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions."
Something smells fishy in Denmark!

 

Blessed Sr. Elena Aiello, Foundress of the Minim Sisters and recently beatified had this to say: "ANOTHER TERRIBLE WAR WILL COME FROM THE EAST TO THE WEST. RUSSIA WITH
HER SECRET ARMIES WILL BATTLE AMERICA; WILL OVERRUN EUROPE." The quote is from her biography, but can also be found on the following website: http://www.mysticsofthechurch..... Again, we ignore the warnings of the Lord through His prophets to our peril.

 

MS7, the above posts are all very profound. No doubt that there has been a campaign to try and convince Catholics that indeed the consecration did take place. I have mentioned before that Father Robert Fox, who knew Sister Lucia, and promoted his works via his Fatima Family Apostolate help spread the untruth that the Fatima consecration had been done. I bought his line for nearly 30 years, through his Blue Army magazine. I had met, visited with him and had great respect for him all those years.

Because of yours and others conflicting information on MOG forum from what I had always understood, I did substantial research to conclude as well that I (we) had been duped by some of the highest dignitaries within the Church and promoter's of Fatima. Verne Dagenais' messages, http://www.scribd.com/doc/22505473/God-Speaks-Will-You-Listen (which I find profound), on the 3rd secret confirm the consecration has not been done as well.

The one person that provides the greatest insight into the actual 3rd secret of Fatima was Father Malachi Martin, who died in 1999. His youtube clips with Art Bell and the interview/report that Suzanne Pearson did with him are profound in that they revealed much detail on what will take place and Russia's involvement in all of it. Without going into specific detail, which after having read the actual 3rd secret, given to him by Cardinal Bea, which he had to swear an oath that he would not reveal in detail, he gave enough information that we can fill in the blanks. This article can be read in its entirety from page 23-36 here http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr107/cr107.pdf