I feel very sorry for them. They thought if they had equal rights they would be happy. Now they think if they silence us that will make hem happy. Next we will have to be killed because we refuse to even think the way they want. But even if all of us were dead, all the churches burnt, the books destroyed, and all taught from birth that they are right, they still will not be happy. And it stinks that no one in authority will tell them that.
Actually, David, Pope Francis' approach to adultery suggests that he is following the way of Moses rather than Jesus. I would be very happy to hear the Holy Father loudly condemn the sin in public. He isn't behind the door loudly condemning people he believes to be sinners. Members of the Mafia are excommunicated publicly.....no internal forum for them. Priests who don't baptise babies who won't be raised in the faith are animals. Catholics who believe what the Church taught until he came on the scene are hypocrites or heretics. All sinners condemned loudly in public. At this stage I would get some comfort if he actually said in public that it is not sinful to acknowledge that adultery and sodomy are sins and that God gave us ten commandments for a reason. Instead, he would have us believe that what looks, waddles and quacks like a duck is actually a swan. Come to think of it, I would get some comfort if he actually acknowledged that the Church taught the truth for 2000 years and that the Daneels Mafia didn't receive some new Divine Revelation when they conspired to have their agenda imposed on the Church by getting him elected Pope.
This is why they killed the Lamb of God, He troubled their dead consciences and theatened to bring them back to life. Our job as Christians is to comfort the afflicted and to afflict the comfortable Which is why we have a thread like this on the forum. If people feel afflicted by this and taken out of their confort zones, why we are just doing our jobs. I am afraid telling organised large groups of militant sexual perverts we are sorry is just not going to get the job done. It only makes things worse. For them...and for us. Not to be a kick ass Chrisitan is not to be a Christian at all. Jesus speant His entire life kicking ass as did John the Baptist before Him. So did the Apostles, so did the Fathers of the Church. Take the kick ass out and we are left with nothing but a sob sister soriety.
Matthew 10:34 The Sword of the Gospel 33But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven. 34Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn ‘A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.…
I have told sinners of their sin and how to repent and how to be happy. And have told them I love them and God loves them. No one has gotten upset with me because they know I try to live as I preach. But also rarely has anyone converted either. I am not in authority. I am afraid unless we are led strongly our efforts are hindered mightily.
I I have reserved myself to the reality that all we can do now is to pray and do penance and be Christ to others. No one is listening, including family members, but they are watching and when the Warning comes many will hear the truth and repent. They will want what you have to share then. I have been told in prayer that our time for words and for hearing is not now, but after the Warning. However, they are watching us now and will want the interior peace they see in us if we are living the faith this instant after the Warning soon coming.
No David. I am asking you to show me where the pope says to this group why they have to go to confession. For what behavior/sins? We all need to go to confession, duh.
Cardinal Ratzinger, 1986: "But we wish to make it clear that departure from the Church’s teaching, or silence about it, in an effort to provide pastoral care is neither caring nor pastoral. Only what is true can ultimately be pastoral. The neglect of the Church’s position prevents homosexual men and women from receiving the care they need and deserve.”" (emphasis in bold added) http://www.crisismagazine.com/2016/pope-right-wrong-reasons The Pope is Right for the Wrong Reasons On June 26, the anniversary of the legalization of same-sex “marriage” in the USA, Pope Francis made controversial comments on his return flight from Armenia. He said that the Catholic Church and all Christians should apologize to homosexuals for failing to protect and accompany them. In truth, there is likely an apology due to persons experiencing same-sex attraction from the Church, particularly her leadership beginning with Pope Francis himself. Rather than make the needed apology, the Pope in his remarks repeated the very actions for which the Church must repent—failure to point out the immorality of homosexual acts. For all of his push to be caring and pastoral, the Holy Father missed an opportunity to demonstrate care and pastoral outreach, at least by a truly Catholic definition of those terms. Since homosexual acts, from a Catholic perspective, lead to dire consequences for the soul, the Church has always insisted on informing people about these dangers. Pope Francis’ predecessor Pope Benedict XVI made that clear while serving under Pope St. John Paul II. In 1986, then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger issued a document instructing bishops on the pastoral care of homosexual persons. In it, the Cardinal admonished bishops to ensure they were “clearly stating that homosexual activity is immoral.” The instruction adds, “But we wish to make it clear that departure from the Church’s teaching, or silence about it, in an effort to provide pastoral care is neither caring nor pastoral. Only what is true can ultimately be pastoral. The neglect of the Church’s position prevents homosexual men and women from receiving the care they need and deserve.” One could fairly say that Pope Francis misrepresented the Catechism in his response to the reporter on the plane. “I repeat what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says: that they must not be discriminated against, that they must be respected and accompanied pastorally,” said the Pope. Nowhere in his response did he express any of the Catechism’s many grave warnings about homosexual acts. The Catechism’s teaching on homosexuality is given in three paragraphs comprising just over 220 words. The Pope’s response references only 20 words from the middle of the second paragraph, ignoring the numerous passages warning against the harmful sexual behavior. The Catechism warns that homosexual acts are “acts of grave depravity” and that they are “intrinsically disordered,” that they are “contrary to the natural law” and that “under no circumstances can they be approved.” The Catechism stresses that same-sex attracted persons are called to chastity, and calls them to approach Christian perfection. Those truths however are very hard to mention especially today where those who would dare give voice to the harms of gay sex are immediately deemed social outcasts. But are Catholics, especially those in the hierarchy, not called to “preach the truth in season and out of season?” Do the Scriptures not admonish us that to fail to discipline is to “hate” your child? It is love that compels a parent to remove a child from a dangerous situation, even when that child is complaining about his parents being mean for depriving him of his fun. But if you believe in the eternal consequences for sexual sin, you cannot stay silent. Even a committed atheist can see that. Penn Jillette, of the famous Christian-bashing show Penn and Teller, said these words back in 2008: If you believe that there’s a heaven and hell, and that people could be going to hell or not getting eternal life or whatever, and you think that it’s not really worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward …—how much do you have to hate somebody to not proselytize? How much do you have to hate somebody to believe that everlasting life is possible, and not tell them that? So, yes, Catholics and all Christians need to apologize to those with same-sex attractions. We need to apologize for having failed to lovingly point out the harm of homosexual sexual acts for both body and soul. That pastoral activity was the duty of the clergy first and foremost. Love demands we speak the truth and the future of Christianity depends on it, as Pope Benedict warned. A time of persecution of the Church is near at hand, and indeed, in many parts has already arrived. In an address given only 18 days prior to his election to the pontificate, and one day prior to the death of Pope John Paul II, then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger said: “Very soon it will not be possible to state that homosexuality, as the Catholic Church teaches, is an objective disorder in the structuring of human existence.” (Photo credit: Edward Pentin / CNS)
I think it is a bit like it says in the Book of Ecclesiastes. That there is a time to live and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to sow. So it is in our obedience to the truth. I think mostly we witness mostly by our own lives and the in prayers. We are living rebukes , so to speak and nothing is more powerful. But there are times when the fire of the Spirit carries us like little john the Baptists or Elijahs to kick a few doors of hardened hearts in. A bit like a carnival ride. It is a little frightening but I kinda think this is fun. That is for us lay folk though. For priests, Bishops and Popes though the situation is loads different. They get to sit in the front trenches and give and take the very first shots. They are our heroes and their motto is to be Semper Fidelis, always faithful. They are called to a Prophetic role to shout and warn. To kick a little ass. Bishops and Popes get to carry croziers as symbols of shepherds crooks to rmeind them that they have to get on out there and kill the wolves that wanna eat the sheep. To wack the wolves on their foul heads, not to tell them sorry. Thats what they there for. This is exactly why the wolves hate and detest the Shpeherd and which more than anything to kill him, for they know he is their chief enemy. When the wolves, the media, celebrate our present shepherd as the most popular Pope in history then we have a problem. The enemies of the Faith are not patting the Pope on the back for nothing. St Peter got hung out to dry upside down. He was not made person of the year. We have to ask ourselves some very serious questions as to why this is.
+ Brothers and Sisters, I am a member a a prison ministry group that just celebrated the Baptism and Confirmation of 3 inmates this last Sunday afternoon. One of the men (call him MB), was homo-sexual but is now fighting those tendencies after coming to the truth offered by Christ Jesus. This was a long struggle for him and he was still practicing when he first came to us. The leadeship of our ministry team all showed this man Christ's charity. We welcomed him warmly into our group studies and informed him of his err of lifestyle (with love and as a brother in Christ equal to us). The seeds planted by the Holy Spirit took root and a little over a year later, we now have a new Catholic. All of us paid some price for accepting this man into our Catholic classes. Class size fell off as other "good Catholic inmates" refused to be in class with someone who they felt was an abomination. Talking to these men and explaining that the abomination is the sin of homosexuality, not the man made in the image and likeness of our Father. I can genuinely relate to what Pope Francis is trying to say (maybe because I deal with converting these men some). I feel like a disciple when I tell MB to hold to the Faith to overcome all of your evil tendencies, including not to judge those who judge him so harshly. I feel like a disciple again when I tell the men who want to leave our group that being a Catholic Christian ain't easy folks. I tell them that feeling revulsion towards sinners going against God's law is normal but guess what, it's up to us to be Christ to all people, especially when it's the hard thing to do. Blessed Ann Catherine Emmerich has told us that when Christ finally came to His cross, HE EMBRACED IT! I tell the men that we have to do the same because He did that for us. He did not wait for us to find Him, HE FOUND US. He did not wait for sinners to find Him, HE FOUND THEM. Yes, it's our decision weather to follow Him or not, but He will not be the one to turn us, or anyone away. This is now a lesson for imitation of Christ for both MB and the other "good Catholic inmates". It seems that our Protestant brothers (who do much good work in the prisons) will not even accept these men into their classes. We Catholics are not only accepting them, but converting them. "Who am I to judge?" I can relate to that. We judge the sin, not the sinner. Thank Jesus that He does not count all of our confessed sins, and that when He grabbed a hold of that Cross, He allowed us to grab onto it with Him. Through the cross comes the Ressurection. It may be uncomfortable Brothers and Sisters, but let's grab onto it with all the gusto we can muster. Peace, Ed. Our Lady of Victory - Pray for Us. +
Amen ED! God bless you and your ministry. “The Lord gave me much light to know His attributes. The first attribute that the Lord revealed to me is to know is His holiness. His holiness is so great that all the Powers and Virtues tremble before Him(...). The holiness of God is poured out upon the Church of God and upon every living soul, but not in the same degree. There are souls who are completely penetrated by God, and there are those who are barely alive. The second form of knowledge that the Lord granted me concerns His justice. His justice is so great and penetrating that it reaches deep into the heart of things, and all things stand before Him in naked truth (...). The third attribute He revealed is His love and mercy. And I understood that this is the greatest attribute. It unites the creature with the Creator. This immense love and abyss of mercy are made known in the Incarnation of the Word and in the Redemption [of humanity], and it is here that I saw this as the greatest of all God’s attributes” St. Faustina (Diary, 180).
Great! Courage has been doing such vital work for decades without any fanfare and little kudos. Maybe they're owed an apology for being Faithful while many dioceses promote gay affirming "ministries" to homosexuals. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courage_International Courage International The group consists of laymen and women usually under anonymous discretion, together with a priest, to encourage its members to abstain from acting on their sexual desires and to live chastely according to the teachings of the Catholic Church on homosexuality. Courage also sponsors an outreach program, Encourage, which ministers to relatives and friends of gay people by providing help by "supporting one another and their loved ones through discussion, prayer and fellowship." As a means of guiding homosexuals to a life of penance and chastity, the ministry uses the pastoral letters issued in 1986 by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (later Pope Benedict XVI), who was serving as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and those issued in 2006 by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.
I did not say anything about condemning anyone. Do not put words in my mouth or the pope's. I am just asking for a clarification of church teaching on the action. How do you know he holds it? How does anyone since all he has said is "who am I to judge", and he left that statement hanging for over a year.
Ed, I agree with what you are saying. You said something in your comments that is at the very heart of much misunderstanding of Pope Francis words and it is this statement you made: "I can genuinely relate to what Pope Francis is trying to say". This comment is what brings most to alarm, because everyone interprets what Holy Father 'is trying to say' within their own interpretation, because he does not qualify his words well, whether intentionally or unintentionally.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/a...ardinal-marxs-call-for-apology-to-homosexuals African cardinal rebukes Cardinal Marx’s call for apology to homosexuals Claire Chretien June 28, 2016 (LifeSiteNews) – In a pithy tweet on Saturday, a prominent South African cardinal rebuked German Cardinal Reinhard Marx’s claim that the Church should “apologize” to homosexuals. “God help us! Next we'll have to apologise for teaching that adultery is a sin! Political Correctness (PC) is today's major heresy!” Cardinal Wilfrid Fox Napier tweeted. Napier posted his tweet in response to African pro-life and pro-family activist Obianuju Ekeocha, the founder of Culture of Life Africa, who tweeted an Irish Times article about Marx’s comments. Marx, the Archbishop of Munich and Freising, said that up until “very recently” the Catholic Church had been “very negative about gay people,” and that “it was a scandal and terrible.” Marx suggested that the Church begin to look favorably on same-sex relationships, although not recognize them as marriages. “You cannot say that a relationship between a man and a man, and they are faithful, [that] that is nothing, that has no worth,” he said. The Catholic Church teaches that same-sex attractions are “objectively disordered,” but those who experience them “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided” (CCC 2358). The Catholic Church also teaches that “under no circumstances” can homosexual actions be approved. Such actions “are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity” (CCC 2357). Marx also commented on government recognition of same-sex relationships, saying it’s up to the state “to make regulations for homosexuals so they have equal rights or nearly equal . . . but marriage is another point,” and that the state “has to regulate these partnerships and to bring them into a just position, and we as church cannot be against it.” In a 2003 document titled Considerations Regarding Proposals to Give Legal Recognition to Unions Between Homosexual Persons, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith under Pope St. John Paul II wrote that “clear and emphatic opposition” to legalized same-sex “marriage” is a duty for Catholics: In those situations where homosexual unions have been legally recognized or have been given the legal status and rights belonging to marriage, clear and emphatic opposition is a duty. One must refrain from any kind of formal cooperation in the enactment or application of such gravely unjust laws and, as far as possible, from material cooperation on the level of their application. In this area, everyone can exercise the right to conscientious objection. On Sunday, Pope Francis echoed Marx’s statement that Christians should apologize to homosexuals.
LifeSiteNews. Once again reporting the hard Truths very few will report, and very few will comprehend or refuse to understand.
One would think that if this applies to the good cardinal, it would apply to others recommending making similar apologies. Let him who has eyes see, and ears, hear.
Thank God. A voice of orthodoxy at last! The most diabolical part of what Marx has said and the part that Pope Francis MUST rebuke: Marx suggested that the Church begin to look favorably on same-sex relationships, although not recognize them as marriages. “You cannot say that a relationship between a man and a man, and they are faithful, [that] that is nothing, that has no worth,” he said. https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/a...ardinal-marxs-call-for-apology-to-homosexuals That statement by Marx is in direct opposition to the Catechism.
