Ha ha Padraig. Not even close but I suspect you know that. You have an unusual humour. I get the sense that it tries to be edgy but its not quite there. You need practise so I will keep posting. (I may be absent for a while.) In an aside, you and Brian seem to be in cahoots. Is Mac cosy with you guys too. Just so I know what I am dealing with. I have been pm'd by others on another forum who tell me to be careful what I post as you like to swing the boot from time to time. I cant believe that. What a strange concept. I think I would have to be heretical or extremely rude to warrant that kind of action. I remember Pope Francis saying "where there is calumny there is Satan. " I try to avoid that especially in dealing with the Pope. He seems to despise gossip and intrigue and rumour mongering. I dont blame him. So do I. Sorry you found my meaning so obscure. I see there are some who say the same about the Pope's comments. God love them and their poor old heads. I fear it will all be clear enough soon enough. I will summarise my post for you: human love thrives best on faith whether it is for God or man. If you have all the answers given to you it deprives us of this best way because that would eliminate the need for faith. God wants our faith. God only wants the best for us and from us. So does the Pope. He gives us enough to be going on with. Not a proud heart and no concern for things too great for me. Looking back at former comments it seems Brian or Mac would give that snapping turtle a run for its money. I see I will have to keep my hand clear of that merciless mouth. Thanks for at keast reading my comment. Hope ithers get more out of it.
Actually no, homophobia is NOT a reality in 99% of the cases in which the word is applied. Christians are not "afraid" of homosexuals, they are simply stating the Truth to them, that it is a gravely sinful and self destructive lifestyle. This Truth is what homosexuals brand as "homophobia" and are trying to silence. Frankly the entire idea of "homophobia" is part of a homosexualist's main pieces of propaganda, an effort on their part to denigrate and silence any Christian opposition. The fact that this false propaganda is repeated on a Catholic forum is simply preposterous. The fact that it's repeated by a forum moderator is a textbook example of diabolical disorientation. Complete and utter nonsense! This kind of falsehood should not be permitted to be posted on a Catholic forum by its enemies, let alone by Catholics themselves. This is more homosexualist propaganda that is blatantly untrue. Homosexualality is an intrinsic disorder and when it is actively engaged is accompanied by self destructive behavior and mental instability. This accompanying mental instability and compulsive self destructive behavior is the root of the high suicide rate among practicing homosexuals, not "fear of condemnation from the Christian community"! Why is this erroneous propaganda not debunked on a Catholic forum? Why has it not been addressed? Why is it tolerated? Homosexual agenda BS hiding behind more Psychobabble. The hatred here is that of the active homosexual, for whom God's laws are written on his soul, of himself because of his sinful behavior. It is not extrinsic to the soul, it is intrinsic. More unreconstructed nonsense. The homosexual agenda is ascendant everywhere, and it's Christian opposition is dwindling into silence. This isn't about Christians "apologizing" for errors of the past. This is about Christians caving on central Gospel Truths in the face of unrelenting and false homosexualist propaganda, propaganda that is being dutifully repeated verbatim here. This should not be tolerated here on a Catholic forum. It is demonic.
Regardless of who you are in reality (Joe vs Blue Horizon vs ?) you're a passive/aggressive retread and/or troll who knows far too much about this relatively obscure little forum and its members to have simply chanced to join. If this were my forum, you'd be gone after this broadside.
I agree Brian. Saying sorry by itself means nothing. Asking for forgiveness is a different thing. Following that up wih action that confirms your intention to change is different again. All three are needed fot it to be more than a mere gesture. Sorrow, forgiveness, amendment. If I have deliberstely and needlessly harmed a homosexual person I should ask forgiveness and try not to harm them again. Just like any other person I have harmed. I am not obliged to keep on apologising. I do not apologise for my faith but am sorry for the ways I have failed to live up to my professed faith. If they take my profession of faith as a slur on their condition or a threat to their lifestyle I am not obliged again and again to reassure them that I mean no harm. Once is enough but I may be made to suffer for my faith.
I have been watching this forum off and on for years. I am no troll and you have no right to say that. I am sorry that you have this groundless regard for me. God bless you. Edit How have I offended you?
Get the state to recognize these relationships, then claim innocently that "now that the state recognizes their relationship, the Church has to do something for them too. For the children..." "We in the Church should not oppose..." A fait accompli. Cardinal Marx, during the conference in Dublin CNS / Dermot Roantree The German cardinal said the Church "has to apologize to homosexuals" Cardinal Marx: "No one can say that a relationship between two men, if faithful, has no value" The cardinal admits that "the secular state has to regulate these relationships" Cameron Doody, June 27, 2016 at 20:00 The state has to regulate homosexual relationships for the situation to be fair and we in the Church should not oppose...
We need never apologise for saying we are convinced that homosexuality contravenes the use of sex that God intended and that in our view it is a perversion rather than an expression of love. I woukd hazard a guess that most Catholics could not even present the simple procreative/unitive arguments to support our faith never mind those stats about death, disease and prison. The really brave ones would simply express their heartfelt disgust at what it entails and say the bible says its a mortal sin. They would not be wrong. But perhaps not always correct to be so blunt. I have worked with homosexuals who do want to change but they are always changed by the real concern and consideration expressed for them by true Christians and impressed by the authentic love they find in the truth of offered solutions. They Want to hear the truth and to deal with it. But only when help is requested. Addicts usually need to ask for help rather than help being offered. It takes a brave man or rather a foolish man in fact to stand infront of a crowd of homosexuals and tell them they are perverts and unless they change they are going to hell. He would in fact be risking his life and maybe those of his family and friends. Although we may need sometime to stand up and be counted we should look around to assess the risk to others. Aggression and rudeness should never be tolerated on this forum. Members should not be intimidated by these means. Even as a new name I am entitled to this opinion. If someone is objectively wrong in their opinion about the faith then they can be corrected but always with care and respect. If they continue to flout the faith then they should go but not on the whim of opposition. This correction need not exclude teasing or humour but should exclude crassness and cruelty and injustice. I have never read any deliberate opposition to church teaching on homosexuality on this forum. There are three main sources of sin. The world, the flesh and the devil. But all sin is essentislly demonic. That includes anger. Does this mean we should all be excluded from the forum? We are all sinners. Peace be to all here.
Now that BrianK who is obviously supported by Padraig has voiced his opinion that I am a troll and that I should be excluded from this forum I suspect others will be afraid to comment on my posts in case they get tarred with the same brush. I am shocked that a Catholic forum can operate like this in its governance. The forum members in general seem to be good people. I have already been shown genuine welcome but feel the opposition shown to me is unwarranted.
The state regulates all civil marriages and marriages of all other religions. None of them are Catholic sacraments. Are all these people living in sin. Are all condemned? What should our attitude be?
I suppose I shouldn't say this but................ Is there a huge difference between bishops granting indulgences 500 years ago to people who gave large donations to Church charities or other Church projects and what appears to be the complete caving in of the Pope to demands regarding people in "irregular situations" by bishops in the very wealthy German Church that has been generous with financial support of Church charities and projects in poorer countries? I just can't shake off the sick feeling in my gut that in this year that the Vicar of Christ will attend the celebrations of Luther's revolt, what is happening now is far, far worse than what Luther objected to. Indulgences then, Sacraments now, and not just any sacrament but the Source and Summit of our faith. It's such a horrible feeling that there's more than mere coincidence about this entire apology, word twisting, "development" of Doctrine, condemnation as pharisees or heretics anyone who demurs, especially in this year. I wish that someone - anyone - could convince me otherwise using plain English that isn't dressed up in fancy terms suggesting that it takes a superior, unique type of spirituality to understand it.
There is truth in one thing you say Joe . It is necessary to know your Faith better than at anytime in these very difficult and confusing times. I wish I had taken time to do some theology studies. On the other hand , looking at people like Cardinal Marx, who is clearly and out and out heretic maybe I have spent my time more productively on my knees in prayer. Oh by the way Joe you're at the attack dog stuff again. Beware. But I find through this discussions I am getting an education in itself. I am learning all the time. I am often Confused but I am learning. Yes I think looking back on it I did maybe as well learning Theology , the Good Lord knows what some of these people might have tried to put in my poor head.
For those who wish to understand better the Pope's attitude to homosexuals (although in truth Francis' words in the recent plane interview are clear enough) here is an article from earlier this year: Interviewing Pope Francis in July, Italian journalist Andrea Tornielli asked the pope how he might act as a confessor to a gay person in light of his now famous remarks in a press conference in 2013, when he asked: "Who am I to judge?" Francis' reply appears in a new book The Name of God is Mercy to be released Tuesday. "On that occasion I said this: If a person is gay and seeks out the Lord and is willing, who am I to judge that person?" the pope says. "I was paraphrasing by heart the Catechism of the Catholic Church where it says that these people should be treated with delicacy and not be marginalized." "I am glad that we are talking about 'homosexual people' because before all else comes the individual person, in his wholeness and dignity," he continues. "And people should not be defined only by their sexual tendencies: let us not forget that God loves all his creatures and we are destined to receive his infinite love." "I prefer that homosexuals come to confession, that they stay close to the Lord, and that we pray all together," says Francis. "You can advise them to pray, show goodwill, show them the way, and accompany them along it." Asked whether there is an opposition between truth and mercy, or doctrine and mercy, the pontiff responds: "I will say this: mercy is real; it is the first attribute of God." "Theological reflections on doctrine or mercy may then follow, but let us not forget that mercy is doctrine," says the pope. "Even so, I love saying: mercy is true." The Name of God is Mercy is the result of an interview between the pope and Tornielli, the coordinator for the Vatican Insider website. The book is being published in 86 countries and about 20 languages on Tuesday. NCR received an advance copy of the English-language version of the text. At one point in the book, Tornielli asks Francis why God never tires of forgiving humanity. "Because he is God, because he is mercy, and because mercy is the first attribute of God," the pope responds. "The name of God is mercy." "There are no situations we cannot get out of, we are not condemned to sink into quicksand, in which the more we move the deeper we sink," he continues. "Jesus is there, his hand extended, ready to reach out to us and pull us out of the mud, out of sin, out of the abyss of evil into which we have fallen." "We need only be conscious of our state, be honest with ourselves, and not lick our wounds," says Francis. "We need to ask for the grace to recognize ourselves as sinners." The interview ends with Francis reflecting on the traditional spiritual and corporal works of mercy. "By welcoming a marginalized person whose body is wounded and by welcoming the sinner whose soul is wounded, we put our credibility as Christians on the line," the pope says. "Let us always remember the words of Saint John of the Cross: 'In the evening of life, we will be judged on love alone.'" http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-explains-who-am-i-judge
I was just trying to be transparent. On other forums people 'like' things only only for them to be changed later. I was indicating as fast as poss that it was changed. Why would that common online etiquette be used to identify me as that person with whom you and the others are so obsessed. Whoever he is I am sure he is glad to be gone from here. And now Padraig has chosen to ignore Brian's assault on me and somehow turned my defence into an attack by me. I thought I must have missed something so showed this to my friends who were equally shocked at the attitude and actions of this forum. I suspect now that Brian is not fully responsible for the way he posts so this comment of mine will simply be dismissed by his poor mind. He is probably as incapable of appreciating and cooperating with the mind of Pope Francis as are you. You have all shut your ears, closed your eyes and turned your backs on his goodness. But worse you have misled those who look to you for education in the true faith and for honest and sound debate. I am afraid that Padraig is at best, simply confused, as he himself says but that does not excuse entirely how he has treated me in the short time I have been here. The malice he has shown is plain as opposed to the malaise of Brian. (I would not say this about Brian if I did not believe it will simply be ignored by him. Water off his back.) As for you Mac, you are a mystery, almost as if you are above questioning. You seem so sure of yourself with no good reason that I can see. I can see you belting out a sermon from a pulpit high above the people safe in the knowledge that you are right, but you are not. I was given a gift to offer to this forum. The forum needed to be corrected. If I had not tried to do this I would have been held to account for your sin on judgment day. I have judged the content of this forum. It is now up to God to judge its leaders. As confirmation of the authenticity of my gift when Padraig posted a somewhat humerous comment about rainbows and going to mass I told him that when he arrived at church God's rainbow, not the one hijacked by the homosexual community, would be in the sky over his church. How could I have known that at that exact time at the other side of the world? He even posted a photo of it. Even Padraig would not make this photo up. Would he? What I do know is that whatever is wrong with this forum I neither need nor want it, or to be further infected by it, just as this forum's controllers neither need nor want me. I am happy to go. Bye. //www.catholicstand.com/does-the-pope-really-think-jesus-sinned/
Well if you want to be transparent , what other forum have you been commenting on? Can you link us a recent comment?
Stop posting with your New Zealand ISP address until you get "home" and then come back when you return to Great Britain for several weeks using your Great Britain ISP address and everyone will know you're not a retread. Otherwise your animosity towards posters and long winded posting style here can only confirm readers in their belief that you are indeed a retread/troll. A dishonest one.
Joe , aka Viv is banned again. I am afraid he will ressurect again under a new guise. What drama! What excitement ! What intrigue! What mystery! Money could not pay for it; we have it all at the Mother of God Forum. Will Joe return once again from the dead? Will he triumph over the forces of conspiratorail evil ranged ruthlessly against him? Stay tuned here for our next exciting adventure of , 'Joe Crozier, Vatican Agent, Licensed to Surf'.
Uh-oh. Wall of text, no separate paragraphs or indentations, definitely Joe. Ok, back to topic at hand.
