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Countdown to the Kingdom

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by bflocatholic, Mar 26, 2020.

Page 68 of 129

earthtoangels Guest

josephite said: ↑

(edited)
How can Mr O'Connor be a professor or an adjunct professor for that matter.......... when he has not even received a PhD?

You can keep your sarcastic congratulations and continue to follow those that deceive.

But I for my part follow the Lord who is not deceptive. Praise Be His Holy Name.

I feel sorry for all the true hard working PhD recipients, when other wannabes, who have not obtained a PhD, have the hide to proclaim they are also post doctorates, this is great deception!
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You would have to ask his college that question as they list him.

earthtoangels, Jul 15, 2020

#1341

Booklady likes this.
HeavenlyHosts Powers

I read the article from Dr Miravalle and the quote from Fr Michel is that the Devil is in the lowest level of Purgatory. He did not use the word demons or devils. He said Devil.
That was the wording. That definitely is not Catholic.
It’s my understanding that God made Hell as an abode for the Devil and the evil spirits. And He did not intend for us His children to go there.

Last edited: Jul 15, 2020

HeavenlyHosts, Jul 15, 2020

#1342

josephite and Christy1983 like this.
Christy1983 Guest

Julia said: ↑

Thank you Booklady. I was beginning to think I was loosing the plot.

The thread has turned into a debate on who is who in the academic world.

It is worthy to note that Saint Paul and Saint Luke who are known to have been intellectuals only came on board after the initial twelve chosen Apostles. This tells me the humble fisherman has a better chance of discerning Gods plan in our lives, and the intellectuals only come on board after watching from afar.

Intellectual snobbery only holds people back spiritually. IMHO
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Julia,

It's completely disingenuous to frame this as intellectual snobbery. It is about honesty. Two published descriptions of his position are incorrect--both errors tend to elevate him from the lowest level of academia.

Daniel O'Connor does not teach at a university or a college. Both of those offer four-year bachelor's degree. He teaches at a community college. Community colleges only offer 2-year "associate's degrees" or certificates. These are not considered college degrees, as that term is commonly used in the US.

Amazon's description of his position lists him as "Professor of philosophy at the State University of New York." He is not.

The book, apparently, lists him as a professor at a State University of New York College. That is not true, either. (Colleges offer four-year programs.)

I don't know how both Amazon and the book's publisher got Daniel O'Connors place of employment wrong. It could be an honest mistake. But, why doesn't he come out and say he teaches philosophy and religion at Hudson Valley Community College as an adjunct. That, is the exact truth. And the simplest explanation. But, it certainly wouldn't impress anyone.

.

Christy1983, Jul 15, 2020

#1343

Waiting by the window, josephite and HeavenlyHosts like this.
Sam Powers
HeavenlyHosts said: ↑

I read the article from Dr Miravalle and the quote from Fr Michel is that the Devil is in the lowest level of Purgatory. He did not use the word demons or devils. He said Devil.
That was the wording. That definitely is not Catholic.
It’s my understanding that God made Hell as an abode for the Devil and the evil spirits. And He did not intend for us His children to go there.
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Yes, Dr. Miravelle does say the word used was the devil.

Theological Assertion: The Existence of Demons in Purgatory

Fr. Rodrigue alleged that Padre Pio took him to Purgatory, where he witnessed that the bottom level of Purgatory consists of souls “beaten by the Devil as their purification”:

After that, Padre Pio brought me to purgatory. I discovered that there are seven levels in purgatory. At the bottom level, I could see souls beaten by the devil as their purification.14

I too have no dog in this but I wonder if this is a language difficulty with Fr. Rodrigue, but in thinking about this I wonder if the devil can appear on earth, can he not go to purgatory? Just pondering...

And this is taking up way too much valuable time for me.
Sam, Jul 15, 2020

#1344

Booklady, AED and Byron like this.
Sam Powers

Christy1983 said: ↑

It's completely disingenuous to frame this as intellectual snobbery. It is about honesty. Two published descriptions of his position are incorrect--both errors tend to elevate him from the lowest level of academia.
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Yes, I think people were actually worried about the state of Daniel's soul in their questions.

Sam, Jul 15, 2020

#1345

josephite, HeavenlyHosts, Byron and 1 other person like this.
Byron Powers

HeavenlyHosts said: ↑

I read the article from Dr Miravalle and the quote from Fr Michel is that the Devil is in the lowest level of Purgatory. He did not use the word demons or devils. He said Devil.
That was the wording. That definitely is not Catholic.
It’s my understanding that God made Hell as an abode for the Devil and the evil spirits. And He did not intend for us His children to go there.
Click to expand...

Oh there you go again REACHING. Give it up already. Just open up another post for your friend Emmett.

Byron, Jul 15, 2020

#1346
Christy1983 Guest
Sam said: ↑

Yes, Dr. Miravelle does say the word used was the devil.

Theological Assertion: The Existence of Demons in Purgatory

Fr. Rodrigue alleged that Padre Pio took him to Purgatory, where he witnessed that the bottom level of Purgatory consists of souls “beaten by the Devil as their purification”:

After that, Padre Pio brought me to purgatory. I discovered that there are seven levels in purgatory. At the bottom level, I could see souls beaten by the devil as their purification.14

I too have no dog in this but I wonder if this is a language difficulty with Fr. Rodrigue, but in thinking about this I wonder if the devil can appear on earth, can he not go to purgatory? Just pondering...

And this is taking up way too much valuable time for me.
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Thank you, Sam. Yes, wasting time! So easy, here.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a “purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven,” which is experienced by those “who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified” (CCC 1030). It notes that “this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned” (CCC 1031).

The catechism does not state why the punishment of the Holy Souls is different. But to be entirely different? Since Hell is where the devils reign, I suspect God does not allow the devil in to purgatory.

.
Christy1983, Jul 15, 2020

#1347

josephite, HeavenlyHosts, Advocata Nostra and 1 other person like this.
Booklady Powers

For some of us , it may be useful to see the Miravalle observation, and the O'Connor response to each point in sequential format.

Dr. Miravelle's First Point

1. Negative discernment and decision of Fr. Rodrigue’s local bishop regarding the supernatural authenticity of his alleged messages
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Daniel O'Connor's response to Dr. Miravalle

First
Dr. Miravalle has stated that Fr. Michel’s bishop has rendered a “negative discernment and decision” regarding the supernatural authenticity of Fr. Michel’s messages. This is misleading. In fact, no formal decision whatsoever has been rendered, and the bishop has merely informally stated his own lack of personal support for Fr. Michel’s messages. This quite simply indicates that Fr. Michel is not an officially approved seer; thus he has an “unapproved” status shared by many seers that Miravalle himself (rightly, I believe) promotes.
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Dr. Miravelle's Second Point

2. Abnormal Diabolical Exposure and Interaction during Childhood

According to Fr. Rodrigue’s discussion of his childhood, his autobiographical testimony reveals an unusual exposure to diabolical activity, juxtaposed with highly questionable responses to these reported diabolical experiences on the part of Fr. Rodrigue himself.
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Daniel O'Connor's response to Dr. Miravalle

Second
Dr. Miravalle issues what can only fairly be called a quibble regarding the mystical phenomena Fr. Michel experienced in youth, taking issue with the allegedly “unusual nature and degree of these alleged diabolical attacks [against Fr. Michel].” The truth, however, is that the only unusual thing would be if such attacks were lacking in the life story of an extraordinary mystic — which Fr. Michel certainly is, if indeed he is authentic. This second objection of Miravalle’s, therefore, is little more than a question-begging conclusion; assuming that Fr. Michel is inauthentic in an effort to prove precisely that.
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Dr. Miravelle's Third Point

3. Theological Assertion: The Heavenly Father and Fr. Rodrigue are “One” In an alleged message from God the Father, the Heavenly Father directs people to do everything they can to help Fr. Rodrigue construct a monastery for his new order, reportedly ending his directive with the statement: “I refuse nothing of what he [Fr. Rodrigue] asks of me. He and I are one.”9
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Daniel O'Connor's response to Dr. Miravalle

Third
Dr. Miravalle raises a phrase where Fr. Michel says of God the Father: “He and I are one.” This objection appears to be an unfortunate misunderstanding. Fr. Michel did not say that he [Fr. Michel] and the Father are one. Fr. Michel received a message from God the Father Who said that He [capital “H,” that is, Jesus] and the Father are one. Dr. Miravalle’s statement that Fr. Michel Rodrigue says that the Father does whatever he, Fr. Michel, asks of the Father, is therefore, also false and untenable. The message states that the Father does what the Son, Jesus, asks of him. Fr. Michel is an official exorcist in the Church, with proven spiritual gifts not unlike the great saints, a seminary professor, a pastor, and priest in good standing. He would not have been able to operate in the Church with such an abundance of God’s grace and power, if he had such outlandish beliefs and vocal statements.
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Dr. Miravelle's Fourth Point

4. Theological Assertion: “The Anti-christ is in the Hierarchy of the Church Right Now.” Fr. Rodrigue proposes that the “Anti-christ is in the hierarchy of the Church right now, and he has always wanted to be in the Chair of St. Peter.”10 Although highly speculative in nature, the patristic, mystical and prophetic traditions of the Church generally pose the historic person of the “Anti-christ” not as a cleric within the Church, but rather as a secular political figure outside of the Church11 who in turn, would work in conjunction with a false or “anti-pope” at a time of great ecclesial and global persecution.
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Daniel O'Connor's response to Dr. Miravalle

Fourth
Dr. Miravalle implies that Fr. Michel’s teaching that the Antichrist is somewhere in the hierarchy of the Church is at odds with “the patristic, mystical, and prophetic traditions of the Church.” Miravalle provides no details to support this argument other than linking to an old Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Antichrist. This article does not support Miravalle’s position, but does in fact support Fr. Michel’s—for example, the article cites St. Bernard’s teaching that the Antichrist will also be an antipope. It is also worth noting that there is hardly a consensus as to the lineage, background, etc. of the Antichrist among the sources Miravalle cites.
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[Continued]

Booklady, Jul 15, 2020

#1348

Fatima likes this.
Byron Powers

Christy1983 said: ↑

Thank you, Sam. Yes, wasting time! So easy, here.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a “purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven,” which is experienced by those “who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified” (CCC 1030). It notes that “this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned” (CCC 1031).

The catechism does not state why the punishment of the Holy Souls is different. But to be entirely different? Since Hell is where the devils reign, I suspect God does not allow the devil in to purgatory.

.
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This is exactly what the Protestants believe. Hellllllo

Byron, Jul 15, 2020

#1349
Byron Powers

Byron said: ↑

This is exactly what the Protestants believe. Hellllllo
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Again Christy your opinion. The fires and torments of purgatory don’t come from God.

Byron, Jul 15, 2020

#1350

earthtoangels likes this.
Sam Powers

Christy1983 said: ↑

Thank you, Sam. Yes, wasting time! So easy, here.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a “purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven,” which is experienced by those “who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified” (CCC 1030). It notes that “this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned” (CCC 1031).

The catechism does not state why the punishment of the Holy Souls is different. But to be entirely different? Since Hell is where the devils reign, I suspect God does not allow the devil in to purgatory.

.
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Ahh, keeping me pondering Christy , could the punishment of Holy Souls be different because it is not permanent and they have hope and know they are saved? If St. Faustina saw demons in purgatory could not the devil be there. Pondering the four last things, getting off topic I suppose.

Sam, Jul 15, 2020

#1351
Christy1983 Guest

From Daniel O'Connor's reply to Dr. Miravalle:

Second
Dr. Miravalle issues what can only fairly be called a quibble regarding the mystical phenomena Fr. Michel experienced in youth, taking issue with the allegedly “unusual nature and degree of these alleged diabolical attacks [against Fr. Michel].” The truth, however, is that the only unusual thing would be if such attacks were lacking in the life story of an extraordinary mystic — which Fr. Michel certainly is, if indeed he is authentic. This second objection of Miravalle’s, therefore, is little more than a question-begging conclusion; assuming that Fr. Michel is inauthentic in an effort to prove precisely that.

In fact, as a child Fr. Rodrigue BURNED DOWN HIS OWN FAMILY HOUSE. Previous to that, he could only get relief by CLIMBING ONTO A HOT WOOD STOVE.

I don't remember hearing this in the life of the The Little Flower...St Gemma Galgani...St Bernadette of Lourdes

This is seriously weird stuff that needs to be examined by the Church, certainly before Fr. Rodrigue is allowed to continue to spread his sensational prophecies around the world.

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2020

Christy1983, Jul 15, 2020

#1352

Beth B, josephite, HeavenlyHosts and 1 other person like this.
Christy1983 Guest

Sam said: ↑

Ahh, keeping me pondering Christy , could the punishment of Holy Souls be different because it is not permanent and they have hope and know they are saved? If St. Faustina saw demons in purgatory could not the devil be there. Pondering the four last things, getting off topic I suppose.
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Sam, I only hope some day to get to purgatory to find out the answer!

Christy1983, Jul 15, 2020

#1353

josephite, HeavenlyHosts, Sam and 1 other person like this.
earthtoangels Guest

There are many who also experienced Purgatory and saw the influence of demons on the lower levels of purgatory. Maria Simma who had her Bishop's permission to carry on her special mission for the souls in Purgatory who would come to her for prayers and more also spoke to demons in Purgatory at the lowest levels. Howard Storm's experiences with the demons were on the lowest levels of Purgatory....he was not in hell and thus was "rescued" by Jesus through his memory of the little child's prayer. Dr. Nemeh, the "doctor who prays and things happen", whose state of mind is constantly connected to the Holy Spirit w/ amazing healings of all kinds.... and who was taken, bodily, to the 3rd heaven as was St Paul and many times spiritually.....during these experiences on the spiritual level he saw that 2nd heaven, the level of purgatory and also the spiritual influence level for earthly temptations, those demons being spiritual beings....and he also saw the demons tempting the souls on the lowest level. After all many have said that they have seen hell from the lowest levels of purgatory....reminder actually of the mercy of God to those souls on the lowest level of where they could have gone and were so close to going except for the unfathomable mercy of God permitting them that last moment of possible repentence!

http://blindfaithlive.com/issams-insight-the-heaven-and-hell-of-purgatory/#sthash.AJJFgox4.dpbs

Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2020

earthtoangels, Jul 15, 2020

#1354

Fatima, Byron and Booklady like this.
Booklady Powers

[Continued ]

Dr. Miravalle's Fifth Point

5. Theological Prophecy: Pope Francis will be martyred and Pope Benedict XVI Emeritus will “convene a new council” Fr. Rodrigue prophesies that Pope Francis will be martyred, and that Pope Benedict XVI Emeritus, “who still wears the papal ring” will subsequently convene a new council: Pope Francis will be like Peter, the apostle. He will realize his errors and try to gather the Church back under the authority of Christ, but he will not be able to do so. He will be martyred. Pope Emeritus, Benedict XVI, who still wears his papal ring, will step in to convene a council, attempting to save the Church. I saw him, weak and frail, held up on either side by two Swiss guards, fleeing Rome with devastation all around. He went into hiding, but then was found. I saw his martyrdom.13
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Daniel O'Connor's response to Dr. Miravalle's Fifth point

Fifth
Dr. Miravalle claims that it is a “substantial theological error” to assert that Benedict XVI may in the future convene a new council to elect a Pope after Pope Francis dies.

This fifth argument falls victim to the general logical fallacy of judging the superior by the inferior; in this case, seeking to judge a theological reality by the standard of canonical minutiae. How exactly a conclave is convoked in order to elect a new pope is not a “substantial theological” question at all, therefore even if one were to fall into error regarding it, it could not possibly amount to a “substantial theological error.” Throughout the history of the Church, there has been a a great number of ways in which the details of Papal Election have transpired. Even if it is not the canonically ordinary way to convoke a new conclave, we are not exactly living in canonically ordinary times, and entertaining the possibility that a genuine prophecy could speak of a Pope Emeritus being the one to even informally call the Cardinals together to elect a new Pope should not even be considered such a stumbling block, much less considered as heretical.
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Dr. Miravalle's Sixth Point

6. Theological Assertion: The Existence of Demons in Purgatory Fr. Rodrigue alleged that Padre Pio took him to Purgatory, where he witnessed that the bottom level of Purgatory consists of souls “beaten by the Devil as their purification”: After that, Padre Pio brought me to purgatory. I discovered that there are seven levels in purgatory. At the bottom level, I could see souls beaten by the devil as their purification.14 The concept that devils exist permanently in Purgatory and are carrying out a purifying function in Purgatory as part of the providence of God is substantially incompatible with the authentic Catholic doctrine on the nature of Purgatory.
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Daniel O'Connor's response to Dr. Miravalle's Sixth point

Sixth
Unfortunately, Dr. Miravalle’s sixth objection is itself subject to grave errors. First, Miravalle refers to “the concept that devils exist permanently in Purgatory.” This is an intrinsically contradictory statement, as Purgatory is essentially temporary (it is Church dogma that Purgatory ceases to exist upon the General Judgment), and therefore referring to anything having a “permanent” position in Purgatory is meaningless. More problematic, however, is Dr. Miravalle’s implicit assertion that it is heresy to refer to demons having a role to play in Purgatory; as such an assertion condemns no less an authority than St. Faustina herself as a heretic.

In §412 of her fully approved revelations, St. Faustina writes of one of her own visions of Purgatory, saying:

I saw the souls who were doing penance in purgatory. They appeared like shadows, and among them I saw many demons.

Shortly after, in §426, Faustina describes the Purgatory of a certain soul who had been particularly mired in sin, and goes on to say, “I can find no words or comparisons to express such terrible things. And although it seems to me that this soul is not damned, nevertheless its torments are in no way different from the torments of hell; there is only this difference: that they will someday come to an end.” Obviously, if the only difference between Purgatory and Hell for a given poor soul is the merely temporary nature of the former, then one can conclude that the demons do have some role to play in at least some levels of Purgatory.
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Dr. Miravalle's Seventh Point

7. Factual Assertion: Surprise Meeting with Pope St. John Paul II at his Desk in St. Peter’s Basilica Fr. Rodrigue asserts that while in St. Peter’s Basilica searching for St. Peter’s tomb, he climbed a staircase and surprisingly discovered Pope John Paul II in his undershirt at his desk. The text is quoted here to provide a fuller context of the assertion (as summarized in his Virtual Retreat 15):
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Daniel O'Connor's response to Dr. Miravalle's Seventh point

Seventh
Here, Dr. Miravalle claims that Fr. Michel must be regarded as unreliable due to a personal story he shared about an encounter with Pope John Paul II allegedly being impossible to have transpired. But Miravalle’s entire seventh point is based on the notion that anyone who is “familiar with the daily Vatican protocol of Pope St. John Paul II” can be absolutely certain that John Paul II never had any room anywhere in St. Peter’s Basilica (the largest Church in the world) that he could have possibly used as an office and that John Paul II could not possibly have ever done anything in the Vatican that was not directly observed by his private secretaries or Swiss guards, and that, consequently, Fr. Michel’s story about an encounter with John Paul II “could not have been based in reality.”
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Booklady, Jul 15, 2020

#1355

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Booklady Powers

Dr. Miravalle's Eighth Point

8. Factual Assertion: Pope John Paul II used a “Fake Pope” to enable him to leave the Vatican Fr. Rodrigue asserts that Pope John Paul II used a “fake pope” to allow Pope John Paul II to “sneak in through the back” of the Vatican.
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Daniel O'Connor's response to Dr. Miravalle's Eighth point

Eighth
As with his third point, this point, too, is based on a misunderstanding. Note: Fr. Michel’s English is rather broken and, as such, he sometimes uses the wrong words in his self-translation. Furthermore, he has written little about his prophecy, but primarily has spoken about it, adding to the difficulties.

Christine Watkins, who has met privately with Fr. Michel and interviewed him, explains:

Yes, that would be completely irrational, but that is not what Fr. Michel said. I wrote this down down from memory based on Fr. Michel sharing this story with a few of us at a dinner table…. I would like to clarify Fr. Michel’s words: ‘Yes, I am here because I’m too short to get close to see you. But how is it you’re here when you pope vehicle [your car] is pulling up right now where all the crowds are?’ Here Fr. Michel did not mean the popemobile, where the pope is clearly visible, as that would be ridiculous. During public audiences, obviously it was he, the pope, who spoke to the audiences. Dr. Miravalle seems to have read this to suggest that an imposter was standing in place of the pope during his public audiences. This is not what Fr. Michel was saying. Fr. Michel was surprised to learn that in order for the pope to arrive in a car for his public appearance and not be trapped or delayed by crowds, a similar “pope” car pulls up [most likely with dark windows], so that John Paul II could come and go. This would be wise and understandable.”

I would add that it is not uncommon among dignitaries, as a matter of security, that decoy cars, etc. are used.
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Dr. Miravalle's Ninth Point

9. Theological Assertion: “After the Warning, no one left on earth will be able to say that “God does not exist” and “Everyone will recognize Christ “ and “Want to serve the Lord” Fr. Rodrigue maintains that God the Father instructed him that after the Warning, i.e., a global illumination of conscience, that everyone will recognize Christ and will want to serve the Lord: After the Warning, no one left on Earth will be able to say that God does not exist. When the Warning comes, everyone will recognize Christ, and they will also recognize His Body, and the body of Christ is the Catholic Church. They will know that they have to come back to Him in the way that you will show them. Priests will also be there to welcome them. We will not be there to judge them. At that point, everyone will want to serve the Lord.18 This assertion seems to deny the possibility of a free act of the free will by over seven billion people, whereby some of whom (even after an extraordinary event such as an illumination of conscience) could immediately deny the proposed grace of such an illumination as hallucinatory, imaginary, etc., and as a result reject the reality from its initiation.
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Daniel O'Connor's response to Dr. Miravalle's Ninth point

Ninth
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The assumptions guiding Dr. Miravalle’s ninth assertion are radically at odds with Fr. Michel’s entire message. Here, Miravalle objects to Fr. Michel’s teaching that the Warning will cause all to “recognize Christ” and will remove the ability to say that “God does not exist.” Miravalle writes: “This assertion seems to deny the possibility of a free act of the free will by over seven billion people, whereby some of whom … could immediately deny the proposed grace [of the Warning].“

Fr. Michel is well aware that many will deny the grace of the Warning. His entire message is that, after the Warning, a Great Apostasy will commence with many joining sides with it and with the Antichrist who initiates it! Obviously, any statement from Fr. Michel that might seem (wrongly) to dispute the reality of free will allowing many to deny the grace of the Warning must be understood in the light of Fr. Michel’s own clear and repeated teachings on what will come after the Warning and which contradict such a mistaken interpretation.
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Dr. Miravalle's Tenth Point

10. Prophetic Assertion: Six and a half weeks after the Warning, Individuals will be led to a Refuge, where, leaving cars, properties, and cell phones behind, they will spend Three and One Half Years in Complete Confinement Fr. Rodrigue asserts that God the Father has instructed that six and one half weeks after the Warning, individuals will be directed by their guardian angels to a specified refuge, at which time they should abandon their properties, cars, and cell phones, and immediately enter a designated refuge (in some cases their own home), where for a period of three and one half years, they are to remain in total confinement: After the six and one half weeks following the Warning, when the devil’s influence returns, you will see a little flame in front of you, if you are called to go to a refuge. This will be your guardian angel who shows this flame to you…He will conduct you to a refuge from the Father. If your home is a refuge, he will guide you by this flame to your home. If you must move to another place, he will guide you along the road that leads there… You will not bring a cell phone. You will leave the car far from you and your property. You will not use the Internet and will throw out your computer, your television, any kind of electronic device because the devil has already worked on these products before you obtained them… …For three and a half years, you will be in your refuge or in your home…19 The over specificity of this alleged message, i.e., precisely “six and one half weeks” after the Warning, is unusual within the Church’s mystical Tradition. Moreover, the alleged directive for families to immediately leave their homes, properties, possessions, etc. after the Illumination of Conscience has absolutely no precedent within Church approved private revelation.
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Daniel O'Connor's response to Dr. Miravalle's Tenth point

Tenth
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Dr. Miravalle’s final objection takes issue with Fr. Michel’s assertion that there will be about a six or six and a half-week reprieve after the Warning and that sometime after this point, faithful souls will be lead by their Guardian Angels to refuges where they will be protected during the reign of the Antichrist. Now, whether or not these prophecies from Fr. Michel are true or wind up being fulfilled, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with them and they constitute no grounds for rejecting his authenticity.

Miravalle writes “…the alleged directive for families to immediately leave their homes, properties, possessions, etc. after the Illumination of Conscience has absolutely no precedent within Church approved private revelation.” But this objection is a straw man, for Fr. Michel never said that we are simply to abandon our lives after the Warning on account of his own admonitions. Rather, Fr. Michel teaches that we are to follow our Guardian Angel, who will miraculously appear to some in the form of a flame, and lead them to temporary or permanent refuges. It is particularly strange to take issue with a simple admonition to follow one’s Guardian Angel if the latter miraculously appears. I would like to know what exactly Dr. Miravalle would advise his readers to do if their Guardian Angel appears to them telling them to do something. Furthermore, Fr. Michel’s account—as he explains here—of the Guardian Angel appearing miraculously as a flame is not unprecedented.
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Booklady, Jul 15, 2020

#1356

Fatima and earthtoangels like this.
HeavenlyHosts Powers

Byron said: ↑

Oh there you go again REACHING. Give it up already. Just open up another post for your friend Emmett.
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HeavenlyHosts, Jul 15, 2020

#1357

AED and josephite like this.
earthtoangels Guest

Booklady said: ↑

Dr. Miravalle's Eighth Point

Daniel O'Connor's response to Dr. Miravalle's Eighth point

Dr. Miravalle's Ninth Point

Daniel O'Connor's response to Dr. Miravalle's Ninth point

Dr. Miravalle's Tenth Point

Daniel O'Connor's response to Dr. Miravalle's Tenth point
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All excellent réponses containing the due diligence that Dr Miravalle neglects....esp. as he leaves out the most necessary understanding of the nuances of language so often corrected by Fr. Michel's English audiences themselves during his talks....he often would use a singular for plural due to his language of custom....or whether a term of the AC meant to him the spirit existing in the place of the hierarchy which obviously would love to usurp the papacy itself and would use a diabolically influenced volunteer to carry out that desire.

earthtoangels, Jul 15, 2020

#1358

Fatima, Booklady and Byron like this.
Byron Powers

Christy1983 said: ↑

Thank you, Sam. Yes, wasting time! So easy, here.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a “purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven,” which is experienced by those “who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified” (CCC 1030). It notes that “this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned” (CCC 1031).

The catechism does not state why the punishment of the Holy Souls is different. But to be entirely different? Since Hell is where the devils reign, I suspect God does not allow the devil in to purgatory.

.
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You need to study the lives of the Saints. It’s a very Catholic thing to do. Our Church fathers also taught us about purgatory. They told us the ultimate sacrifice by Our Lord during His passion and cross explains and reveals what Purgatory is all about. Yes, purgatory exists to sanctify us and purify us for heaven. But if it’s a mirror of Christ’s suffering, then ask yourself, were the torments and torture Christ endured during His passion not executed by demons? Were the Romans not possessed? God allowed it, but it was the devil who tortured.

Byron, Jul 15, 2020

#1359

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Byron Powers

Byron said: ↑

You need to study the lives of the Saints. It’s a very Catholic thing to do. Our Church fathers also taught us about purgatory. They told us the ultimate sacrifice by Our Lord during His passion and cross explains and reveals what Purgatory is all about. Yes, purgatory exists to sanctify us and purify us for heaven. But if it’s a mirror of Christ’s suffering, then ask yourself, were the torments and torture Christ endured during His passion not executed by demons? Were the Romans not possessed? God allowed it, but it was the devil who tortured.
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So, why would you doubt that the devil is not torturing souls in purgatory? Seriously, you and HH just dish out personal opinions. And that’s really unfair for those of us here trying to learn more about Catholicism.

Byron, Jul 15, 2020

#1360

Fatima likes this.

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