Did Pope Francis show his hand on Medjugorje?

Picadillo,

I was unaware that the Vatican had confirmed a Medjugorje "miracle" as being authentic.

Since you have accused me of being "prideful", perhaps in your humility you could direct me to the results of the Vatican study confirming this latest Medjugorje "miracle."

 

I never said "Vatican confirmed miracle" so please get your facts straight. Also, outside of being prideful you seem very obsessive over Medj. I will pray for you if the vatican positively rules on Medj because I believe you don't have the humility to admit that you were wrong.

 

Thank You, Picadilo, for confirming for us that no miracle has yet occurred at Medjugorje. This is to be expected as the local Bishop has confirmed that in fact nothing supernatural has been occurring at Medjugorje. In fact, the local Bishop went one step further and stated that the non-supernatural was operative. The non-supernatural is only one of two things: the natural or the preternatural, and since a miracle requires the supernatural, it is only prudent to approach all these claims of "miracles" at Medjugorje with a grain of salt.

 

There you go again. I said I do know of a miracle that occurred at Medj. Please quit twisting my words.

 

David,

Please call up Colleen Willard and her husband and tell her to get back in her wheelchair.

 

Are you aware at all that there are many 'Joan of Arcs' out there with valid apparitions and locutions who are being told to be quiet by Freemason bishops and priests? MANY. As someone pointed out, maybe Padraig; there were Freemasons (the mayor of the town of Lourdes) involved in persecuting the child Bernadette and threatening her family and her priest. The Bishop of Mostar is a bishop of controversy and suspect. Bless his soul, he was in a seriously difficult position being that there was so much animosity between the Franciscan and the Diocese and of course there were the wars and the gossip and people whispering in his ear. I'm SURE he was ecstatic that the Vatican took it out of his hands. It didn't help that there were priests and nuns who fell from grace during all of this, which is to be expected as one reads the 'true history' of famous apparitions and visionaries that are approved. The authorities being communist and being experts in propaganda are hugely suspect also. I was there in 1986. We had to pretend we were on a skiing trip and hide our bibles and take off our crucifixes around our necks. The testimony of the family I stayed with was pure heaven to me as they lived in poverty, and the 80 year old grandmother slept in a cardboard box in the backyard AND GAVE ME HER BED. I know this because I had very thick black coffee with her in that cardboard box the next morning and through an interpreter, she told me with joy her sacrifice and her joy that the entire village was chosen and had changed and that she had seen families who had feuded her whole life come to love and forgive each other because our Lady asked them to and the grace was given.

I've known many souls who are receiving real apparitions and locutions and the priests or Bishop is squashing the whole thing. Our lady is very sad indeed. Woe to those who disregard our Lady's words! Yet, God's grace is sufficient. My spiritual father used to say,

THAT IS WHY OUR LADY BEGS US TO PRAY FOR OUR SHEPHERDS NOW!!

 

That is simply not true, Bishop Peric has launched an initiative to raise it to the level of the Vatican, because the Commission decision at the local level have not yielded any results. Pilgrims are still kept coming, even though they were negative Commission decisions, those decisions were translated into foreign languages ​​in the positive tone from the people who support Medjugorje.

You people do not understand that what you see in Medjugorje is just a show for the pilgrims. People who have properties in Medjugorje support apparitions, as a means of financial gain, but other people do not, because they see a lot better than you who have been there a few times.

 

My mother and father never believed in Medugorje so that always taught me that there are many fine, devout Catholics who do not believe.

Of course the Church teaches we do not have to believe. I think Traditionalist Latin Mass folks tended not to believe. I am not sure why. Perhaps it was because Mary never said anything about the Tridentine Mass there. I forget.

Though they never said anything bad about the visionaries there or the Franciscans.

Funny too I have a memory of sitting with them watching a documentary with them on padre Pio on TV when St Pio was stil lalive and them being somewhat dubious too.

If I had told them Padre Pio had a special dispensation to say the Tirdentine Mass til lhe died they would have canonsied him themselves then and there.

 

That is what they said at Lourdes and Fatima too!

 

Rino, If you are a priest and a member of a group trying to persuade others not to believe as Padraig suspects then I would be starting to have my doubts about my position by now. This might be very useful to you.

 

Is that a trick question? Some people assume something that may be true or not true, and then compared to the response described his vision as a message of Our Lady, or if it is not true as an ordinary dream. My native language is Croatian, and me in my language is very difficult to deceive, but in a foreign language that is not so difficult.
For example, if I read something in English and translate it to the Croatian, the translation will in itself have a part of me, since I am not a professional translator.
But in my native language, I see very well what is written and how.
Getting back to the topic, when I read the first Lady's messages I see that the messages written by children aged fifteen, because these messages have the maturity of their years. Eventually messages evolve, and these alleged visionaries learning from mistakes are not repeated the old misconceptions that result from theological ignorance.
However, that these messages are authentic, they should not evolve because at the very beginning would be perfect.
There are some other moments that I can not talk, for which I know the truth about the whole phenomenon, but it is irrelevant to this discussion.
Here, I'm not trying to convert anyone, conversion should always flow from the man himself, because what is the meaning of faith if we do things by force, without that our soul is convinced.

 

Hi,

Sorry I had to remove a post as requested.

~
Hello, my name is Mary Shovlain and I am writing to request a correction in an article about me posted on your website. MedjugorjeToday.tv inccorectly identified me as working with EWTN and I do not work for them or any news organization in any official capacity. Remarks taken from my personal Twitter page are my own and reflect no one's view but my own. Please correct the article or remove it. Many thanks.

 

The Fatima seers and St. Bernadette were obedient to the local Bishop.

But disobedience to the Bishop of Mostar is blatant in Medjugorje. This disobedience has even been instigated and sustained by the ‘apparitions’ themselves.

According to the German theologian, Manfred Hauke, the apparition at Medjugorje urged disobedience thirteen times to Bishop Zanic, who had originally been inclined favorably to the apparitions.

Let's listen to the local Bishop in his own words. What he says is much more important than what this unapproved "apparition" has to say:

“The examination of the events must precede the examination of the fruits. When this order is not respected errors of judgement can arise.​

If we examine the events of Medjugorje in the light of the fruits, what do we observe? It is first of all undeniable that at Medjugorje there are returns to God and ‘spiritual’ healings. ... One could not deny these good fruits in situ. ... But can we say that they continue in our parishes? Difficult question, for we must note unfortunately that the susceptibility, even aggressiveness, of some partisans of Medjugorje towards those who do not share their enthusiasm is such that in some places it provokes serious tensions which attack the unity of the People of God.​

From where do the good fruits, observed in an indisputable manner at Medjugorje, come? A declaration of Bishop Peric, our confrere of Mostar, may on this point usefully enrich our mediations:
‘The fruits, so often mentioned, do not prove that they flow from apparitions or supernatural revelations of Our Lady. In the measure that they are authentically Christian, they may be interpreted as a product of the normal work of divine grace, by faith in God, by the intercession of the Virgin Mary, Mother of Christ, and by the Sacraments of the Catholic Church. And this is to say nothing of the negative fruits.’​

Finally, it is opportune to ask ourselves if the events of Medjugorje have produced good fruits in the visionaries who, at least during the duration of the ‘apparitions’, must by their life be the first witnesses of the grace of which they say they benefit. From there it follows that we ask ourselves the following questions: ‘Have they obeyed the Bishop of Mostar? Have they respected him? ... ’ Such questions and still others yet, are habitually part of a serious investigation into an event of apparitions. In order for the investigation to arrive at a solid conclusion, it is necessary that these fundamental questions receive a clear and objective response.​

We would like to say nothing about the doubtful or even bad fruits. But truth obliges us to say that they exist. Let us quote, as examples, the calling into question, even to the point of defamation, of the Local Ordinary as well as the disobedience with regard to his legitimate authority; the exacerbation of the Herzegovina ‘question’ following the words attributed to the ‘Gospa’, words in favour of the Franciscans and against the Bishop "

- Pavao Zanic, Bishop of Mostar, Official Statement: Medjugorje, March 1990).​

 

Rino, are you absolutely positive that the Bishop of Mostar, Pavao Zanic is or never was a Masonic Freemason?
WHY? OR WHY NOT?

 

What evidence do you have that Bishop Zanic is a Freemason?

That is a serious charge and one that you should not make lightly.

Linky or stinky.

 

I'm asking you. You know there are many in the Church. How do you know he is or is not?

 

The burden of proof rests with the one making the accusation.

 

I am throwing this out there only to say that IF HE WERE---then the children, the priests would be under no obligation MORALLY to obedience to that Bishop, because as it is, he would NOT be in union with the Holy Father. It is a slippery slope. Good thing we are not God nor are we the Vatican who is going to figure it out for us...

 

"Throwing it out there" without any evidence is called Calumny. It is a grave sin.

Pope Francis recently gave a speech on this very topic: Gossip is a form of murder, Pope Francis reflects http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/gossip-is-a-form-of-murder-pope-francis-reflects/