"Francis has been totally orthodox..can only be faulted by faulty reading"

You seem to have all your ducks in order as to why the Pope is bad...a nice ordered list of reported dirty laundry. Which is why I personally don't buy into it... but of course you are entitled to your own opinion. " Rigid observation without personal communication can lead to distorted truth". This of course has been my experience. I think if you were to have a quiet chat with Pope Francis you would walk away quite comfortable knowing that God willed this man...elected by valid means...to be the man for this hour.[/QUOTE]
No, I don't have any ducks in order as to why Pope Francis is bad. I didn't say he was bad. I did say that he is a bad Pope. Neither did I say that he wasn't validly elected. I won't ever have an opportunity for a quiet chat with Pope Francis. Anyway, he's inclined to ignore or dismiss people who share my concerns about the path he is taking the Church. I'm looking forward to seeing some response to the request for clarification from the theologians but I'm not holding my breath.

I recall the first time someone expressed reservations about this Pope, my response was along the lines of "don't worry, he's flushing out the bad apples so he can deal with them". I also did plenty of denouncing media spin. It took a long while for me to see through the "people's Pope" image.

At this stage, I'm tired of responding to the "Jesus ate with sinners" excuse. I've tried praying. I've tried pretending that what's happening before my eyes isn't really happening. Really, there's no point because people who trot out the same excuses as Janet will swallow anything that carries the "mercy" label. It's a sham and an insult to Catholics who still cling to the faith in these days where truth is like shifting sand. There's absolutely no doubt that the confusion that's rife in the Church stems from the Pope. I get no pleasure from saying that. It leaves me with a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach but I'm not going to pretend that all's well when it is far from well and getting worse. Good luck to you if you can see any benefits from adopting a Protestant pastoral approach which has proved to be a failure.

 

FS do not lose heart. We live in one of the toughest, if not the toughest age yet to retain a strong faith. When you fall just keep getting back up. My faith too has waxed and waned since I returned to the Church. Try to focus on the positive. Here is a little something for you
Africa will lead! and boy do we need more faith like this now!

 

View attachment 5390 View attachment 5389 Mac,

All that is part of the conversion process. You are correct. You might not think a smile is important but Mother Teresa did. A smile brings happiness...which comes from God. Sometimes a smile was all she could give to the poor and downtrodden. But that helped them feel loved. Those are just little jestures of love. At least one becomes welcoming by smiling. So yes, prayer and spiritual disciplines are vital, what i am speaking about is how to open a spiritual doors. Spirituality is so much bigger then one thing. I can say one thing about conversion and Catholic Tradition can add 1000 more things...to what i am speaking about.

If we really debated conversion...we could write 1000 volumes of information. Every saint was different but at its core the same. If you wrote your thread to try to say i am wrong...then continue living a grumpy life. Im sure that will help convert souls.

Mac, me and you have more things in common then you think. Just be more open to others spirituality. You might not agree but you might also learn something.

View attachment 5388

 

A tear of happiness...yes Africa will lead.

Thank You

 

I love teaching people about the Catholic faith, but they have to want to know about it. So I agree with the popes.

Pope Francis....."The Lord does not proselytize; He gives love. And this love seeks you and waits for you, you who at this moment do not believe or are far away. And this is the love of God. "—POPE FRANCIS, Angelus, St. Peter’s Square, January 6th, 2014; Independent Catholic News

Emeritus Pope Benedict.. "The Church does not engage in proselytism. Instead, she grows by “attraction”: just as Christ “draws all to himself” by the power of his love, culminating in the sacrifice of the Cross, so the Church fulfils her mission to the extent that, in union with Christ, she accomplishes every one of her works in spiritual and practical imitation of the love of her Lord." —BENEDICT XVI, Homily for the Opening of the Fifth General Conference of the Latin American and Caribbean Bishops, May 13th, 2007; vatican.va

Paul VI “It would be . . . an error to impose something on the consciences of our brethren. But to propose to their consciences the truth of the Gospel and salvation in Jesus Christ, with complete clarity and with total respect for free options which it presents . . . is a tribute to this freedom.” . . . The Church’s missionary spirit is not about proselytizing, but the testimony of a life that illuminates the path, which brings hope and love."

 

Oh and thank you for your welcome Praetorian.

 

I agree you cannot force people to believe, but it is kind of the mission of the Church to go out and convert the world.

Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
-Matthew 28:19

 

Here is a good article on what is expected of us:
(I fall far short of this by the way )

Evangelize? Sorry, But I’m Catholic!
Gary Zimak

Catholics are known for many things, such as novenas, devotions to saints, love for the Blessed Mother, and abstaining from meat on Lenten Fridays. One thing that generally doesn’t come to mind when we hear the word “Catholic” is evangelization. To be totally honest, the vast majority of Catholics view evangelization as a negative thing. There is a belief among many Catholics that our relationship with God is a highly personal matter and that “we shouldn’t impose our religious beliefs on others”. I must admit that I felt this way for many years. Even though I went to Mass every Sunday, talking about God to others was something for Protestants and “Jesus Freaks”. I considered it offensive to tell others how they should believe. Furthermore, I didn’t want others to think I was strange. Evangelization is “not something that Catholics do”. To take it a step further, many Catholics don’t feel the need to learn or understand their faith, let alone share it with others. While that may

​

be a common opinion, is it really what the Church teaches? Not at all! As Catholics, we are not only called to study and understand our faith, but we are mandated to evangelize.

Now that I’ve either piqued your curiosity or caused you to suffer a panic attack, let me present some evidence to support my claim and give you some simple and painless ways to fulfill the Church’s instructions. On December 8, 1975, Pope Paul VI issued an Apostolic Exhortation entitled Evangelii Nuntiandi (EN), which addresses evangelization in the modern world. In this document, the Holy Father explains the importance of Christian evangelization:

…the presentation of the Gospel message is not an optional contribution for the Church. It is the duty incumbent on her by the command of the Lord Jesus, so that people can believe and be saved. This message is indeed necessary. It is unique. It cannot be replaced. It does not permit either indifference, syncretism or accommodation. It is a question of people’s salvation. (EN, Paragraph 5)

The above paragraph spells out the importance of proclaiming the “Good News” of Jesus Christ. It is not something that is “nice to have”, but is necessary for people’s salvation! That’s all well and good, but isn’t evangelization the job of priests, religious and deacons? Not exactly…

Thus it is the whole Church that receives the mission to evangelize, and the work of each individual member is important for the whole. (EN, Paragraph 15)

In other words, evangelization is not only the responsibility of the religious and clergy; it is a requirement for the laity as well. Every member of the Catholic Church is personally responsible for sharing the gospel message with others. The Vatican II document, Lumen Gentium, teaches that all baptized Christians “must profess before men the faith they have received from God through the Church and participate in the apostolic and missionary activity of the People of God”. This profession of faith involves both actions and words. While it is crucial to set a good example, the Church teaches that we must also share our faith verbally.

…even the finest witness will prove ineffective in the long run if it is not explained, justified – what Peter called always having “your answer ready for people who ask you the reason for the hope that you all have” – and made explicit by a clear and unequivocal proclamation of the Lord Jesus. The Good News proclaimed by the witness of life sooner or later has to be proclaimed by the word of life. There is no true evangelization if the name, the teaching, the life, the promises, the kingdom and the mystery of Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God are not proclaimed. (EN, Paragraph 22)

Now that we know what is expected of us, do we need to stand on street corners and hand out bibles? Are we required to preach at the office and quote scripture all day long? While there is a time and a place for that approach, there are simpler and less threatening ways to “get our feet wet” in the world of Catholic evangelization. Here are some simple ways to get started:

1. Learn – We need to learn about the Catholic Faith. There is no way that we’ll ever be able to share what we don’t know. There are many great online resources to assist you in learning about the Catholic Faith. Among them are the USCCB and Vatican websites. Additionally, my website http://www.followingthetruth.com lists many authentically Catholic websites and books, all geared toward individuals with a basic or intermediate understanding of the Faith.

2. Witness – Christian witness lays the foundation for evangelization. Avoiding foul language, making the sign of the cross and saying grace before meals, having a positive disposition, and avoiding gossip are all ways that can be used to set a positive example for others. These techniques can be used anywhere: in the workplace, at school, in the home, even at the grocery store. People may notice that there is something “different” about us and could begin to ask questions. This provides the opening to share our “secret”, which is the Catholic Faith.

3. Share – There are many painless (but effective) ways to verbally share our faith with others. We can offer to say a prayer for a coworker who is sick or in a painful situation. We can explain how our faith comforts or sustains us in time of need. We can casually relate a message heard in a homily at Sunday Mass. This technique not only gives us the opportunity to share a positive thought, but it also sends the message that we attend Sunday Mass. Non-threatening techniques such as these are often very effective because they do not involve “beating people over the head” with our Bibles.

4. Pray – The most important step in being an effective evangelist is often the most neglected. We should always remember to pray, especially for an increase in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Everyone who is baptized and confirmed has received the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but we need prayer and grace to help them grow. Prayer and frequent reception of the Sacraments will allow these gifts to grow and will ultimately lead to greater success of our evangelistic efforts. We should also pray for the individuals to whom we are directing our evangelization efforts.

As we begin to follow the Church’s command to spread the gospel in the world, there are a few things that are important to remember. We should not become impatient or discouraged if our efforts don’t appear to be effective. The Lord never asks us to be successful, instead He asks us to be faithful. In the end, any success we have should be attributed to God alone. Also, we must never forget to be charitable when sharing God’s message with others. Our goal must be to win souls, not arguments. Turning to Sacred Scripture, St. Peter provides an excellent one sentence summary of what is expected of us as Catholic evangelists. Staying faithful to his instruction will ensure that we are fulfilling the Lord’s command of charitably spreading the gospel to all nations:

“Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence.” (1 Peter 3:15)

http://catholicexchange.com/evangelize-sorry-but-i’m-catholic

 

To Christ, Praetorian, to Christ!

 

I just came across this today.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...autobiography-i-was-unsure-about-francis.html
It appears that Pope Benedict feels that he will die soon.

 

This proves the point of the original post:

With this semi official Vatican release, this pope has, in writing, and confirmed by the Vatican, endorsed admitting those in irregular (i.e., adulterous and objectively mortally sinful) unions to the Holy Eucharist.

There are no more pretenses that it's all just misinterpretation or media spin or that he's just trying to flush out the heterodox; the Kasper agenda is his personal agenda.

A line has been crossed. We can no longer be silent. Choose sides now, as if your eternal life depended on it.

Because it does.

http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/09/12/pope_endorses_argentine_bishops_document_on_amoris_laetitia/1257635​

 

"Please, Janet, spare me "The Pope is from Argentina y'know" line. "

Don't be so cynical Dolours..it gives a wrong impression.

"The media loved him from the beginning. "

When it comes to the Pope much of the media twist, distort and print out of context quotes...and you call that love?

"His atheist friend, his priest friend, his friend from school and many more have been saying the same thing - that admitting remarried divorcees to Communion is a priority of his papacy and they have been proved right."

And yet he told the Latin American Bishops.....that some advocates of ordaining nuns to the priesthood or of giving communion to the divorced and remarried are in error!
ww.catholicnewsagency.com/news/embrace-missionary-spirit-pope-tells-latin-american-bishops/

What you are getting confused with is the situation with those whose 'marriages' might be invalid.

"Neither did the media invent his supposedly picking at random a letter from an Argentinian remarried divorcee who was complaining that her priest wouldn't give her Communion and giving her permission to receive Communion. So much for pastoral accomaniment!"

You know all the circumstances then?

"They didn't invent him telling the Lutheran woman to "proceed" when she complained about not being permitted to receive Communion with her Catholic husband. "

Something else you fail to understand. Pope Francis first tried to show the ways in which we are united....in our baptisms and in our seeking the forgiveness of sins. "One faith, one baptism, one Lord" He then says that despite.. the fact that we do share the basic foundations ..he "wouldn't ever dare to allow " a non-Catholic to receive communion in the Catholic Church.

"It goes on and on and on without end and we are finding out bit by bit that very little of it is out of context. "

The slander hatred and gossip goes on and on Dolours. Even when the truth is explained the ones who sit in judgement are never satisfied.

"Jesus is the head of the Catholic Church and anyone, even an angel from Heaven, who implies or suggests otherwise is in serious error. The Pope's authority stops the instant he implies that living the faith is too heavy a burden for the faithful to carry."

Jesus is most certainly the Head of the Church ...and Francis His Representative on earth. You seem to forget this. It's extremely sad but you are heading for a schism.

 

Thanks Dolours.

 

Janet, I'm tired of your habit of resorting to personal insults when your argument is weak.

The schism is here already. We see it all around us. That priest who used the excuse of pastoral accompaniment to perform some kind of legitimising of gay marriage in a Catholic Church in Spain did so as bishops in Spain are facing persecution for defending Church teaching. And that's one case highlighted by the media. No doubt there are more and will be very many more. The persecution will come with "Pope Francis Catholics" leading the mob.

 

"You (and the Pope) conveniently forget the part where Jesus said "do as they say, not as they do"

Do you really understand what Jesus was saying here... and why? "Do as they say" Obey the teachings...but don't follow their example because they fail to take care of the widows, and most probably forgot a few other charitable works too. I certainly don't think you can say this about the Pope..so you are left with...Obey His authority, Dolours.

"That's right, Janet, Jesus never condoned the sin of adultery. Pope Francis, on the other hand, is rather ambiguous on the "stop sinning" part, and not only adultery, but fornication, sodomy and artificial contraception. He's quite judgemental, however, on other sins. It's just abstaining from sins of a sexual nature that he considers too heavy a burden for the faithful."

I think you make this up as you go along. The Pope has spoken out on all of those issues..and very strongly too!

"Are you telling me that we have had Pharisees leading the Church for the past 2000 years - that previous Popes, many of whom were martyred, were less merciful than this Pope? "

Try to understand this Dolours....The Pope is being condemned by the likes of you because he does teach mercy, so it is you that is forgetting that other Popes taught the same. But of course you have a need to look for any fault in him.

"It's comical, really, to see people who applaud this Protestant method of watering down the faith pointing the finger at those of us who see it for what it is and calling us Protestants. That's blatant hypocrisy, and since you're so fond of quoting the bible I'm sure I don't need to remind you what Jesus said about hypocrites. Normally, I wouldn't be so blunt but since you are so quick to tell me that I can't tell the difference between hating the sin and loving the sinner, there's no harm suggesting that you check for any beams in your own eye. "

I haven't called you a Protestant..and I haven't called you a hypocrite. I am not the one here pointing my finger at the Vicar of Christ! So maybe you should take your own advice, Dolours. I will say extra prayers for you because you are having a bad day it seems.

 

I see you are into conspiracy theories, Dolours. This is the reason for your confusion. I found the exact words you use to denounce the Pope on many of the false seers sites!

On abortion
A member of the Pontifical Academy for Life said Pope Francis at a recent meeting called for courage to fight today’s culture in working for the defense of human life.
Archbishop Fernando Chomali of Concepcion, Chile, told EWTN News that Pope Francis met with members of the Pontifical Academy for Life in late September and reiterated his clear stance against abortion, as well as his call to bring the message of life to society in new ways.
The Pope told them that they must go against the tide, because today’s culture does not have respect for human life at any stage. “He is proposing a different kind of pastoral action” The Archbishop said.
Pope Francis “It is horrific even to think that there are children, victims of abortion, who will never see the light of day,” he said in his toughest remarks to date on abortion in his “State of the World” address, Reuters reports.

 

"Janet, I'm tired of your habit of resorting to personal insults when your argument is weak. "

I haven't resorted to personal insults at all, Dolours. I've had a few thrown at me..yes even from you today. I feel you are just having a bad day and will feel better tomorrow. Anyway its time for my bed so I will wish you a good night...and God Bless you.

 

Your level of continuous spin and sophistry on this thread demand a level of unthinking credulity, suspension of disbelief and the ability to overlook the obvious that otherwise conscious Catholics have a hard time maintaining, Janet. At least you'll get an "A" for persevering long after it's still reasonable or rational to do so.

 

Haven't seen the personal insults.

But what I have seen is a good scholar.

Welcome to the MOG family Janet

Brother al