Great news, I was able to speak to John Henry Westen, about his interview with Fr. Altman, and the error by the woman in the video about Garabandal (never mentioning the AC), and he will amend the video AND grant me an interview this coming Tuesday ! I'll post it when it is done for those interested.
TODAY IN GARABANDAL HISTORY SEPTEMBER 18, 1962: September 18, 1962, Tuesday. In the morning Loli and Conchita received Communion from the Angel at the door of the Church. In the afternoon the other two girls had an apparition at 5:30. It lasted an hour and a half. They met in the street and ran throughout the village, praying the rosary. They went up to the Pines and descended backwards. It ended at the door of the Church, and they lifted each other to kiss and be kissed by the Virgin. Fr. Valentin Marichalar Torres , Notebook #2 , September 18, 1962
Let me Concur with Glenn and Carol and everyone else here simply: while the period and descriptions you write of here PNF will happen(Jesus’s second coming, etc) I assure you it is 1oooooo% NOT THE WARNING. Why? Simply stated: After the Warning then comes the Miracle. Then a period passes and continues to see if we repent and change. (How long that period is only God knows) If the world doesn’t change, then God sends the Chastisement (The Three days of Darkness) Then whoever is left on earth will continue on. The world continues on. When Jesus comes back through the clouds the way he left in His Ascension to Heaven and returns to earth, that’s the second coming, the last and final judgement of the living and the dead! THATS THE SECOND COMING AND THE END OF THE WORLD! The latter is NOT the WARNING because the WARNING IS NOT the end of the world! Peace!
Remember we will have two periods of Tribulation. The Miracle, whose purpose is the conversion of the world to The Roman Catholic Faith will follow The Warning which comes at the end of the First Tribulation described by the Blessed Mother as “Communism”. The Second Tribulation, “when Communism comes again”, will arrive after The Miracle when our conversion will be put to the test and should it fail and mankind revert to its sinful ways then will come The Chastisement. The conditional Chastisement will not be simply a period of Tribulation - but rather a terrible Punishment unique and extreme in its severity, directly from God, for our sins and unfaithfulness. A large part of humanity will be wiped out. GlennModerator 2 Tribulations “A great tribulation, which is not yet “the Chastisement”, will come because a moment will arrive in which the Church would give the impression of being on the point of perishing…due to a terrible trial. We asked the Virgin what would this trial be called, and she told us that it would be “ Communism”. From : “Garabandal: Message of Hope”Fr. Luis Saavedra, pg 192 Jun 5, 2022Report Like+ QuoteReply
John T. Let me ask you these questions: 1. Will the Warning be a direct message from God to the soul of each person alive? If so, doesn't God have to "come" into the person's soul in order to do that? At the Incarnation, he came in the flesh (carne). At the Second Coming, He will not come in the flesh (carne) but "on the clouds" (nubes). He will come "on the clouds," but the meaning could be, metaphorically, something like "in the spirit," right? A "spirit" is like a "ghost," cloudy-looking, right? Jacinta (Garabandal) said in 1975 that "the Warning is something that is first seen in the air everywhere in the world and immediately is transmitted into the interior of our souls." That sure sounds like the description of the Second Coming as described in the New Testament to me. What do you say, John T? 2. Will this Warning reveal to people their sins? Conchita said "the Warning will be like a revelation of our sins-as como si revelase nuestros pecados." Is that process of God revealing a person's sins not what we call by the word "judgment?" When He judges, isn't God judging our "sins" against the standard of His Commandments? 3. How many times has God come into "the world" of time and space so far? One time, at the Incarnation, right? So the next time, at the Warning, he will "come" the Second time, right? 4. So, if the Warning requires God to "come," but not "in the flesh," and He will "judge" when He comes for "the Warning," and up to now He has only "come" one time (at the Incarnation), then the Warning would necessarily be His "Second Coming," right? And at that "Second Coming" he will come to "judge" us, meaning He will show us that if we do not change that we will punished for our sins, right? 5. And there is no Third Coming in Catholic theology, right? So how is your "Second Coming" different from the one that the Garabandal seers have described? And if the "Warning" is not God "coming" in his last act of Mercy, then what is it? P.S. Can you figure out the answer to this riddle (Conchita refused to answer when asked): Q. Many years ago you told us the event of the Warning begins with the letter "A. " Since Our Lady never told you not to reveal it, can you now mention it? A. She did not forbid it, but I don't know why I haven't said it and I don't feel as though I should say it now. The event that begins with the letter "A" is "Adviento" (Spanish), "Advent" (English), "Adventus" (Latin), Parousia (Greek). This word means "coming." In the Catholic liturgy and theology, it refers both to Jesus's First and Second Coming.
Sorry PNF-At the second coming-It’s the END OF THE WORLD! The WARNING is NOT the end of the world! The world continues after the Warning! At the End of the World God judges the living AND THE DEAD! The WARNING has nothing to do with the dead! They already had their “particular judgement!” The End of the world is the GENERAL JUDGEMENT of the living and the dead! That is NOT the Warning! The Warning is for the living to “correct the conscience of the world! NOT the dead! Period! Peace!
PNF, it all boils down to a person believing what the Blessed Mother said at Garabandal, or not believing it. All the rhetoric won’t change it. God bless you.
John T. Why would you ignore all of the evidence I presented to you? Please look back at that so you can understand the logic of what I said. Specifically, you seem to be suggesting that Jesus will come a THIRD TIME. First time was the Incarnation. Second time will be the Warning. And the Third time will be the "Second Coming/General Judgement." Your suggestion is not logical and is contrary to Catholic theology. 1. To reply to your statement about "the end of the world." In a nutshell, you are unaware of the nuances of the language used in the Bible and Catholic theology concerning the event of the Second Coming. In Matthew 24:3, Jesus is asked this question: [3] And when he was sitting on mount Olivet, the disciples came to him privately, saying: Tell us when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the consummation of the world? Sedente autem eo super montem Oliveti, accesserunt ad eum discipuli secreto, dicentes : Dic nobis, quando haec erunt? et quod signum adventus tui, et consummationis saeculi? Note that the word translated as "world" is in latin "saeculi," which means the "temporal world." The original Greek word in Matthew 24:3 is aionos, which definitely means "a space of time." The best translation of that word into the English language is "age." So, the discussion in Matthew 24 (the Olivet Discourse) concerns the "End of the Age," not the "End of the World." The Latin world for "world" (meaning the space-time continuum that we call the "universe" in English) is mundi, the Greek word for the same "world" is cosmos. The Second Coming is discussed within the Olivet Discourse at Matthew 24:30. The Second Coming is the boundary of the "End of the Age." The same event is described in Apocalypse, chapter 10:6: [6] And he swore by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things which are therein; and the earth, and the things which are in it; and the sea, and the things which are therein: That time shall be no longer. et juravit per viventem in saecula saeculorum, qui creavit caelum, et ea quae in eo sunt : et terram, et ea quae in ea sunt : et mare, et ea quae in eo sunt : Quia tempus non erit amplius : So, again, at the Second Coming, "time" or "salvation history," as we normally understand it, "shall be no longer." What it means to have things happening after the "end of the age" is a "mystery." You don't need to understand it. You just need to understand that after the supernatural event of the Second Coming/Warning our "world" of "space-time" will be different than what it was before the Second Coming. Therefore, your objection that everything that I said in my previous post is null because "At the second coming-It’s the END OF THE WORLD!" is demonstrably false. 2. You stated that "At the End of the World God judges the living AND THE DEAD! The WARNING has nothing to do with the dead!" With that statement, you assume that you should read those words, "the dead," literally. No, the "dead" refer to are those who are "spiritually dead," those living in "mortal sin." That is why the Warning/Second Coming is a great act of mercy before the End of the Age. It will give all people a chance to repent before the final punishment comes.
PNF: I’m not suggesting any such thing! Jesus is coming at the end of the world! Twice total! That’s it! The WARNING IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD! It will be a changed world! But it will continue!! AND Bec Blessed Mother said 0/ZERO-NOTHING OF what you’re posting, Neither did the visionaries! So what you state could/will happen later in time-AFTER THE Garabandal events happen & are completed. Even after the conditional Chastisement. The world is NOT ending at the Warning! This is a Garabandal thread. For anything related to Garbandal-we believe, know and follow Blessed Mother FACTS and facts only re Garabandal! Blessed Mother doesn’t lie or omitt! So we need to agree to disagree and that’s all! Thanks! Peace![/QUOTE]
Yes, John T, this is the Garabandal thread, which is why I am discussing "the Warning" and quoting the Garabandal seers own words as my evidence. You, on the other hand, have quoted no evidence. You have simply stated your opinion. But as I continue to try to point out, your explanation is not logical. Here's why: If the Warning is an event as described by the Garabandal seers as God "coming" into each soul to reveal their sins to them and to give them a final chance to repent, then this Warning would be His "Second Coming." You are suggesting, incorrectly that He will come a THIRD TIME, after the "coming" of the Warning. That is not a suggestion that is consistent with Catholic teaching, John T. You must say one of two things: Either 1. there will be no "coming" of God in the "Warning" (which would contradict the words of the Garabandal seers). This will mean that "the Warning" is not the Second Coming. This seems to be your position. But, as I said, it contradicts the words of the Garabandal seers. Or 2. that "the Warning" is the Second and Final Coming of God into "the world," the final "act of mercy" for sinners before "the end of salvation history," which is my position. Do you see that you can't have it both ways, logically? It is either/or.
PNF, I think that's enough of this pointless argument . No one is changing their view so lets move on. Time will prove one of us right.
If any were swayed by PNF...He cannot be right. Loli was told the exact date of the warning, so it can not be the second coming. Jesus himself told us that only the Father knows that date. Not even Jesus , Mary nor the angels know that date.
TODAY IN GARABANDAL HISTORY SEPTEMBER 19, 1962: "COMMUNISM" IS MENTIONED AGAIN . . . ON THIS ANNIVERSARY DAY OF THE "APPARITIONS OF LA SALETTE" Mari-Loli and Jacinta again mentioned the theme of communism. A theme suited to the occasion on this anniversary of the apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary at La Salette, on September 19, 1846. We know that certain elements of Melanie's famous secret indeed concerned the great evil of communism that was then soon to begin to spread more and more throughout the world . . . As they came out of their ecstasy, the two visionaries did not want to disclose Our Lady's words: these were certainly related to the very difficult period of time of the Pre-Aviso ( pre-warning) . It was only in 1978 that Mari-Loli and Jacinta confirmed the fact that Mary had really spoken to them of communism and had done so on more than one occasion. From 'Garabandal' Book, J. Serre, page 150
Best wishes tomorrow Glenn with your interview with John Henry Westen. You have so much experience we all know that you will do very well!
Hi Non Sum Dignus. I challenge you to find any evidence that "Loli was told the exact date of the warning," as you claim. Here is a quote from Glenn's website (http://simplicityhumilitytrust.org/2021/garabandal/warning-miracle-same-year.html): July 27, 1975 Mari Loli “Needles” magazine Interview Q. You have said that you know the year of the Warning. Can you tell us if it will occur in the next few years or is it still in the distant future? A. No. I can't say anything. Non Sum Dignus, please read the above quote carefully. The person asking the question said to Loli, "You [Loli] have said that you know the year of the Warning." To know "the year" that something will happen is not the same as "the exact date." Jesus spoke of the "day" and the "hour" as being unknown. He definitely did not say anything about the "year" being unknown. Jesus said the following: Mark, chapter 13: [32] But of that day or hour no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father. De die autem illo vel hora nemo scit, neque angeli in caelo, neque Filius, nisi Pater. Matthew, chapter 24: [36] But of that day and hour no one knoweth, not the angels of heaven, but the Father alone. De die autem illa et hora nemo scit, neque angeli caelorum, nisi solus Pater. Matthew, chapter 25: [13] Watch ye therefore, because you know not the day nor the hour. Vigilate itaque, quia nescitis diem, neque horam.
My little humble opinion is that everyone here is correct. The Last Judgment is the event at the end of the World. The Warning is not the end of the World, but it occurs in the end times, which is the end of an era. It’s what Maria Esperanza expressed. During these end times Our Lord will come to us quietly. It will be an intermediate coming. Garabandal seers never spoke of an Antichrist. But Father Gobbi and others have. PNF has done quite a job in giving us an organized scenario. There is much of his analysis that makes sense. There is no real evidence that the Second Coming means the end of the world. It could very well mean what Maria Esperanza said. I find all this so fascinating. I’m not at all frustrated by this discussion. In fact, I appreciate all of your opinions. What’s important is that we stay together in prayer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PNF you are correct, Mari Loli only knew the year of the Warning , and she did reveal it will be an "Even year". As for you quoting " Mark" that does not apply since he is referring to the Second Coming of Jesus, WHICH IS NOT RELATED TO THE WARNING.
Thanks for the clarification, Glenn. You are such a wonderful resource for finding the actual quotes of the Garabandal seers. Your website is very helpful when correcting false claims about what each seer has been quoted as saying. And we are so fortunate to have someone on the forum who can ask Conchita questions directly. Please ask her, for all here on this forum, if she will now tell us the word behind the mysterious letter "A." Maybe she can tells us now what she could not tell us decades ago. I am pretty sure that the word is "Advent" (or the equivalent in Spanish (Adviento) , Latin (Adventus). It would just be a quick question, next time you see Conchita. And it could clear up a lot. What a wonderful gift that would be to this forum and all of the believers in Garabandal who follow your noble work. Thanks again, Glenn.
