The Second Secret of Fatima: "You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illuminated by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world."[21] I read an interesting opinion piece by John Salza. http://scripturecatholic.xanga.com/703978472/2-has-russia-been-consecrated-to-marys-immaculate-heart/
By "spreading her errors" I've always assumed that means the error of communism in all its forms, including socialism. Some believe Mary meant spiritual communism only. I've never bought into that theory. I think she was referring to actual social and government organizations. Its core ideals seem to be spreading again in surprising places. Even though Lucia wrote a letter saying Russia was properly consecrated, Salza argues it wasn't. I'm not sure what to think, but his points were pretty compelling. My own thoughts are that the consecration took place in 1984. The Berlin wall came down in 1989. The Soviet Union broke up, perhaps slowing the spread of communism. It's been almost thirty years, but has Russia truly converted? Putin seems like a ruthless kind of guy, but what about the Russian people in general? Has there at least been signs that Russia is in the process of undergoing a spiritual conversion? Thoughts anyone?
I am kind of two minded. The Church autorities ,as far as I know insist the Consecration has taken place. I am fine with this, they,presumably know more about it than I do; in any case I haven't really had time to study it up in depth; I know it provokes great debate among good sincere Catholics who have given the matter a lot of thought. However my two cents worth would fasten on Our Lady's Warning, which was later spotlighted at the Japanese appariton site, Akita (Chruch Approved): '..... if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated.' I don't think it is true that Russia is still spreading her errors. That's in the past. But the warning is very much on course. So in a sense weher or not Russia has or has not converted the wrold I belief is about to have a severe chastisement. ..and so the Fatima warning is coming to pass....
Rain, I have plenty of thoughts, but will keep them mostly to myself because it would simply reflect the responses of Mr. Salza. I will present one example, however. In 1946, the historian, William Thomas Walsh interviewed Sr. Lucia, subsequently including it near the end of his bestseller, Our Lady of Fatima. After commenting that it was not the consecration of the world to her Immaculate Heart that Mary requested, Lucia clearly stated: What Our Lady wants is that the Pope and all the bishops in the world shall consecrate Russia to Her Immaculate Heart on one special day. If this is done, She will convert Russia and there will be peace. All the consecrations of Pope Pius XII and Pope John Paul II have borne fruit because they were both Marian popes and Vicars of Christ when they performed the consecrations. For example, the tide in World War II clearly turned in favor of the Allies in 1943 after the two consecraions in the fall of 1942. And we know the fruits of the consecration of John Paul II in 1984. However none of these were consecrations of Russia, only of the world. As Mr Salza points out, there is conflicting reports on Sr. Lucia's approval of the 1984 consecration. My primary reservation has always been that the consecrations performed thus far have not conformed with the request of Our Lady. The issue at hand is one of obedient compliance. The quote from above is like a math equation: Pope + bishops + consecration of Russia = peace. Each of the three addends are essential for obtaining the correct sum. Notice how home schooling enriches one's vocabulary! Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
I would like to add my 2 cents. If Lucia confirmed, that Russia has been properly consecrated, that's good enough for me. The Russian people are returning to their traditional faith. The top officials support their orthodox church, which is unthinkable in Slovenia, which makes Slovenia together with Belarus the last bastion of real communism in Europe. However, there is still much suffering and violence in Russia. Why is that I only guess. My guess is, Russia has caused so much evil that God has to punish those who are responsible for evil in Russia and in the world and that is why Russia is still very much suffering. Another thing. I have listend to the teaching of Fr. James Manjackal, a priest from India. He claims that until India and China won't embrace Jezus, then they will spread evil.
I remember in many posts long ago dismantling this issue and a handful of us believed Russia had not been properly consecrated as Our Lady had asked. I'm still in that handful.
Here's a little something for discerning minds: consider the possibility of 2 Sister Lucias. http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/g11htTwoSisterLucys_Horvat.htm
Here's my 2 cents... I'd like to call attention to something that has always bothered me, but I never really put my finger on it until now. I have read this secret a few times, but in the mindset I have today it takes on a different meaning! Ok, here goes...First, I know some think that the red aurora that occurred before the 2nd world war was the light she describes here...but it isn't. It was NOT an unkinown light, we know what it was. This has not occurred yet. I am convinced of this. I think it is the sign in the sky that we are waiting for now...as part of the warning. To prevent the punishments that follow the sign, she says she shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia AND (nobody seems to include this part in discussions) the communion of reparation on the first Saturdays. My question is, has she actually asked for this yet? Does the tense of this statement in the secret confuse anyone besides me? It is stated as a future appearance, to occur after the unknown light, but before the punishments...does anybody else see that? Which would mean that SHE has not actually called for this consecration yet! Consecrating the world in the past years has been the Pope's way of trying to fulfill the prophecy ahead of time - to stave off the punishments to come, perhaps. However, I'm sorry, but I don't think any of this has occurred yet. So, what if the unknown light appears, perhaps we see our souls at that time, or at the very least, we are brought to our knees and scared out of our wits by the vision that is in the sky. THEN Mary comes to all of us, either in an interior vision or a mass-celestial one, or at the sites of the permanent signs, and she asks for the consecration of Russia and for the entire world to make reparation on the first Saturdays. If the world agrees to these things, then we are not punished with the severity that God is intending to punish us. If we refuse, then the punishments occur in all their fury. After the punishments, which include this terrible persecution of the Church and the annihiliation of nations, when the world has been purged, the Holy Father at that time will finally be allowed to consecrate Russia. I think Russia has to concede with this consecration. It may take all the chastisements at their worst to get that concession, This, to me, is exactly what the secret is saying. Also, this allows for Garabandal and Medjugorje to fit in to it all. If Russia was consecrated already and the punishments are not going to occur, then why did these two apparition events occur? If all this in the second secret are future events, then everything makes sense. The warnings of Garabandal, the secrets of Medjugorje, the signs described in them, the chastisements coming, and so on. "What I started in Fatima, I will finish in Medjugorje". Thoughts?
In any case, it seems that Russia plays an integral part in the chastisement that precedes the era of peace. Here is chronology outlined by Desomnd Birch in his Trial, Tribulation & Triumph based entirely on Church Tradition, the early fathers, and private prophecy from approved Church sources (i.e. excluding more modern prophecies which the Church has not ruled on): 1 - The Latin Church will be terribly afflicted by schism and heresy 2 - Chastisement will come inn 2 forms - man-made and heaven sent 3 - Civil war will break out in France and Italy at almost the same time (signal that the Chastisement has begun) 4 - This will spread to general wars, famine, and pestilence 5 - Civil war will take place world-wide 6 - Earthquakes, tidal waves, floods and natural disasters will occur 7 - Some Moslems will cause trouble for the Church and Europe in general 8 - Somewhere in this time a Russian army will invade Western Europe just when everyone thinks this is impossible 9 - England will enter a terrible civil war some time after France and Italy 10 - The Pope will flee Rome but ultimately be found and cruelly murdered. At one point he may travel thru Cologne. 11 - A man subsequently to known as a great saint will be elected Pope near the end of the Chastisement 12 - This man shall convince the French to place a king in charge of their military and civil affairs 13 - This great king shall lead his forces against terrible odds until finally, after attending Mass at Bremen, lead his troops to a victory at Cologne and then the great final victory at Westphalia. It will be obvious that Christ has acted thru Mary to bring this victory about 14 - The Russian and Prussian forces will be totally defeated by the great monarch. 15 - At some point the great monarch chases an invading army of Moslems back to the Holy Land 16 - Somewhere near the end of the Chastisement, 3 days of Darkness are sent by God 17 - After the 3 Days of Darkness, the Russians and Moslems are totally defeated and the Age of Peace occurs
Wow! I have never seen that list before. Its a really interesting one too. Shall we shart checking things off? I think a few checkmarks are already in order. ...and the Warning should happen before the chastisements get really heavy, right? #1 We all know this is happening #3 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1322441/France-riots-Demonstrations-pension-reforms-continue-ninth-day.html http://publicintelligence.net/greece-and-italy-riot-photos-december-2010/ #6 Natural disasters of 2011 the worst in years #9 beginning? http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/08/us-britain-riot-idUSTRE7760G820110808
Well there is not outright civil war just yet but it may not be far off. In any case, communism is not dead yet, maybe just repackaged and called by a new name. Whatever beast arises from the collapse of the EU will certainly spread errors. I'm not quite sure who is considered a "Prussian" these days - eastern Germany? Things will certainly get worse before they get better.
