I so enjoy and am informed by Dr Taylor Marshall and Timothy Gordon when they talk. Here they are talking about Liturgical abuses in the Church homing around the Novos Ordo, the New Rite Mass. It endlessly surprises me to see , what are young people to me , asking these questions. I sometimes feel like I am an old fogey when I ask these questions so I am delighted to see people much younger than me having the same doubts and questions. It is important to note, I think that the New Rite Mass is not a child of the Vatican Council. It could rather be regarded as a step child. IN that Vatican 2 did not authorise most of these changes, they were rather brought in under the cover of them. 'Lex Orandi, Lex Credenti' The way we pray is the way we live. https://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/story.php?id=39029 If then there is such a powerful repricosity between the way we worship and the way we live we can ask then what effect the introduction of the Novus Ordo has had on the way we live. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Is the Novus Ordo filling our pews or emptying them? The New Mass basically came into being in 1969, let's see how we are doing since then. If you look at the figures below we seem to have been humming along up to the introduction of the Novus Ordo and then we simply nose dived. These are the simple facts. We can argue about different causes but if in fact the way we worship is the way we live then the way we worship appears to have been driving folks from the Church in droves Inf act we seem to be right into self destruct...and we need to ask the big question; why?
To ask ourselves if going from this: To this: Was such a hot idea. I am not saying I have all the answers; but the question seems well worth the asking.
One is reverent, one is common. One is worship, the other is a gathering. One invokes awe, the other invokes clapping. One is mystical, the other is banal. One says God is our Creator and Lord, the other says He is our pal. The Novus Ordo is not what the Bishops agreed to at Vatican II. Very specific changes were approved and they were very limited. Essentially the revised Mass would be a Latin Mass with the readings in the vernacular and a couple of other minor changes. That's all. Not to recreate a whole new unrecognizable Mass. The Church since Vatican II reminds me very much of the switch in parenting that happened around the same time. Parents wanted to stop being parents and start being their children's friends. They didn't want the hard duty of sometimes saying the hard truths to them. Of sometimes saying "No."
Well put; so well put. Another difficulty is it is left to the priest as, 'President of the the Assembly', or compare, how he likes to run things. Some do this very well; some very badly. In other words there is a huge difficulty of quality control. One Novus Ordo Mass can be great another bomb badly. Whereas with the Latin Mass what you see is what you always get. It is always consistently of a high standard.
Not always in my experience. As a rite itself? Then I would say yes but some priests can tend to speed through the Latin Rite. So much so that it can be hard to follow along (even for those well versed in the rite) or respond when appropriate and be a part of the Mass which is a part of the reason given to us for the New Order Mass. I have experienced this and was very disappointed. Priests need our prayers.
I have been Blessed then. But then again I only go to Sunday mass in Latin. Maybe that's the difference? I am starting to remembr to pray for priests at the moment. I am starting to realise we may reach a time when they will be very hard to get. That we have been spoilt a little. I must have the choice of at least ten churches near here for early morning mass.
I have been also. The LR masses I have been to that were rushed were during the week. The Priest probably had something urgent to do and I should not complain. He doesn't make a habit of it and I am grateful to have the LR available daily to attend. We have 5 churches relatively near by but 3 of them are churches that are painful to attend because they took VII and ran with it if you know what I mean. I end up feeling very downhearted when I attend them so I avoid it if possible. The Church that is my favorite is 25 miles away so I get there a few times a week if I am feeling OK. I live in a pretty rural area so everything is a bit of a drive for us.
Oh to have the Latin Mass available daily! Where I live it is only available on Sunday and an hour away. You are blessed Don!
Speaking of liturgical or Eucharistic abuses I sat near someone once that I had a very odd feeling come over me about. She kept looking over her shoulder at me and the best way I can explain it is she seemed to seethe at my family for some reason. I told my wife watch these two, they are going to receive the Eucharist and bail out of the church. Sure enough, they both received in the hand and made a beeline for the door. I could not catch up to them but after Mass our Deacon told me that he had seen them before and would be watching for them again. I have not seen them since. At the LR parish I attend a man will receive first, then go and stand by the main exit of the Church. I think this is a great practice. I know that I am, I should never complain. I wish I could attend daily but my health simply does not allow it. Mornings are very hard for me due to illness so I am just grateful that I can attend when I am able. In fact, I wanted to change parishes but my wife became very upset when I suggested it. To be fair, our parish is very reverent and our priest offers the LR twice a month and it is beautiful. He always speaks slowly and clearly to allow the congregation to participate. We attend the LR a few Sundays a month as a family so it's a compromise. I try to support both Churches financially.
The Eucharist should never have been given on the hand. Never. One day it will be stopped; wait and see. I see they have been trying to shut Bishop Schneider up too.
I believe it will be as well. It never should have been allowed and I would be willing to bet that it was only because of influence by powerful interests $$$ in the US who were proponents in seeing the demise of the Catholic Faith and the Church in the US.
Well the USA is so fascinating at the moment. I am sure Catholics from all over the world are watching. It is I believe the centre of the entire world at the moment of the Battle Between good and evil. Between Satan and God. I watch what is going on there all the time with huge interest. ..at least that is my own personal view.
There is a Franciscan abbey about an hour and a half from me that was under attack by a coven of witches quite a while back. Fr. Corapi was there at the time and the friars found out about it. The grounds of the abbey have walking paths and along them are stone pylons that had glass enclosures that used to have relics in them. All the glass on them was broken out and the relics are gone. I presume they were stolen. No doubt by devil worshippers. Very sad The world is not so rosy as we would believe. I remember walking the paths when I was younger and seeing the broken glass and wondering who could do such a thing. I assumed it was a bunch of vandals, but now I suspect it was something more sinister.
The US has been ground zero for the infiltration and corruption of the the Clergy, the laity and the Church itself IMO because of the enormous amounts of private money, power and influence that corrupt so many otherwise good men. We also have influence around the world and so as we go we do as Russia did and our errors are spread throughout the world also. As well, a moral and upright God fearing US population will never stand for the things those in power wish to inflict on us and so many others around the world.
Personally, I always lean toward the darker option. I think this is because my innocence to these things was taken at such a young age. My mother was in a witches coven when I was very young and I witnessed things that no child should before the age of 5 which I remember vividly. I see the worst in these situations which is not always a good thing.
I am away visiting my daughter, so I attended Mass at a Church in her City. A couple of things struck me as unusual. Because of Covid-19, I was told I could not use the kneeler. I asked, “what about during the consecration?” and was told I could stand. I simply can’t do that, so I knelt on the floor at the Consecration, but I only saw one other person who also kneeled. The other thing that struck me as wrong, was that a young lady went to the tabernacle to retrieve the ciborium and brought it to the Priest. And there wasn’t a single statue of Our Lady inside the church. I asked someone about it and they didn’t know why, but said there was a statue of Mary outside. Perhaps I’m being too critical, but it disturbed me nonetheless.
I asked one time why in my local Parish why there was no statue of Our Lady (this was years before the Pestilence) our Parish Priest told me it was for Health and Safety Reasons, in case it fell over and hurt someone. At that point I just gave up. I just thought, whats the point of carrying on a conversation with this person? I left. I mean, I ask you, the statue might fall and hurt someone? Really? To argue with such a person would only reduce you to their banal level Conversations can turn so totally, totally , totally, stupid and pointless you just shrug your shoulders and depart. Because , well..if you continue them you wind up just as stupid and vapid as the person you're talking too. I have had far many far more interesting, intelligent conversations with my two dogs to be honest.
