Malachi Martin believed the Medjugorje appartions were a hoax

I don't need to provide proof. You are the one making the accusation. The burden lies with you. I suggest you retract it.

If you care to look at Fr. Martin's opinions on the subject it is in his interviews with Bernard Janzen. There are about 20 hours worth of them. More than once he mentions that Bayside is false and agrees with that judgement.

 

Richard, have you ever seen the videos of the visionaries and tear drops come from there eyes when they are in ecstasy? That would be very hard to fake in fairness.

 

I have everything I need at the Shrine Grotto of Our Lady of Lourdes in Emmitsburg, MD. I have the tranquility of nature in which to pray and the availability of daily confession and Holy Communion. And the presence of Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton. All within an hour drive. What more could one need?

 

It is disheartening and think how Our Lady must feel the rejection! We just have to persevere. By the way, I also was converted through Medjugorje and know so many who experienced that same conversion. It is the only real test of authenticity but, as we see here, even conversion is dismissed by those who are determined not to believe.

 

No, David, you are in error when you say that conversion is the "real test of authenticity." That is false.

 

Do not be disheartened! The devil wants to darkened Medjugorje. The increased demonic activity is a sign of its authenticity.

 

Thanks 4unborn. The devil does seem to be working hard on destroying Medjugorje at the moment though and is trying to divert people from it, even those who have been there and experienced its fruits and the love that is there.

 

I certainly agree that out views have little importance. I disagree totally with your second sentence however and doubt many would agree with it.

As for the infamous video you posted, it was inevitable I suppose but for the sake of the genuine searchers out there, I will attempt to explain. There is indeed a slight movement of Vicka's head in response to the violent thrust of the testers hand but this should not surprise anyone as the visionaries are not unconscious during their ecstasy. They respond in various ways to what they see in those ecstasies, including the tears mentioned above. They remain kneeling upright so their leg muscles are active etc etc. So a remaining small 'linkage' between their sight and body movement should not surprise us. One thing that can be said with certainty, is that no one who was fully conscious could have kept the response to the thrusted hand so slight.

 

this is the error of some traditionalists: that Fr. Martin is infallible.

I believe in all he said about third secret but I do not believe what he says about Medjugorje

 

Are you calling the visionary a liar then? -She said she didn't see anything else but the apparition.

She said she thought our Infant Lord was going to fall out of Our Lady's arms and moved in order to catch our Lord.

I'm sorry, but that statement is just plain silly and if you believe that... well I may have a bridge to sell you.

This is a major sticking point for myself, I haven't found a response to this video and explanation that explains this away in a satisfactory manner.

 

I have not said anything about Vicka's response to her subsequent questioning.

I have no reason to doubt at all the response she gave. She remained totally in ecstasy during this apparition. What I was trying to explain was that the body, in that state, is not totally 'disengaged'. If that were the case, the visionaries would all collapse on the floor when the apparitions began! I am quite sure Vicka was not conscious of the thrusted hand during her apparition, but a part of her functioning body did react a little.