Catechism 766 The origin and growth of the Church are symbolized by the blood and water which flowed from the open side of the crucified Jesus.
Wow! You did well sourcing that, Bobby. On this day especially. Veni Creator Spiritus. https://www.oursundayvisitor.com/discovering-the-origin-of-the-church-in-genesis/ We Catholics believe that the Church was born from the side of Christ. At his death, the Roman centurion took a lance and pierced the side of Our Lord. Blood and water spilled forth. As the Second Vatican Council puts it, “The origin and growth of the Church are symbolized by the blood and water which flowed from the open side of the crucified Jesus.” The formation of the Church But it is not merely the sacraments that spring from the side of Christ; it is the Church herself! As Vatican II says, “For it was from the side of Christ as He slept the sleep of death upon the cross that there came forth ‘the wondrous sacrament of the whole Church.'” She, the Church, is born from the side of the Savior. Which brings us to the formation of Eve, taken from the side of Adam. One beautiful way to interpret this passage in Genesis is to see in the formation of Eve a foreshadowing of the formation of the Church from the side of Christ. As the Catechism puts it, “As Eve was formed from the sleeping Ad
In this alleged message of Manuela Strack "Jesus" speaks of two churches. "The church of men and the church of the Son of Man." Why would Jesus claim that there is another church other than the Catholic church when there is only one church? For something to be the Church we need the four marks as explained in the Catechism. One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic. Without any those marks it would be just a prayer house not a church.
Our Lord appears to be referring to the False Church, the Ape of the Church.a Church constructed by man: https://www.lepantoin.org/wp/a-vision-of-blessed-anne-catherine-emmerich/ “I saw also the relationship between the two popes. . . I saw how baleful would be the consequences of this false church. I saw it increase in size; heretics of every kind came into the city. The local clergy grew lukewarm, and I saw a great darkness… Then the vision seemed to extend on every side. Whole Catholic communities were being oppressed, harassed, confined, and deprived of their freedom. I saw many churches closed down, great miseries everywhere, wars and bloodshed. A wild and ignorant mob took violent action. But it did not last long… Once more I saw that the Church of Peter was undermined by a plan evolved by the secret sect, while storms were damaging it. But I saw also that help was coming when distress had reached its peak. I saw again the Blessed Virgin ascend on the Church and spread her mantle.” “When the Church had been for the most part destroyed, and when only the sanctuary and altar were still standing, I saw the wreckers enter the Church with the Beast. There they met a Woman of noble carriage who seemed to be with child because she walked slowly. At this sight, the enemies were terrorized, and the Beast could not take but another step forward. It projected its neck towards the Woman as if to devour her, but the Woman turned about and bowed down, her head touching the ground. Thereupon, I saw the Beast taking to flight towards the sea again, and the enemies were fleeing in the greatest confusion…. Then, I saw in the great distance a great legion approaching. In the foreground I saw a man on a white horse. Prisoners were set free and joined them. All enemies were pursued. Then, I saw that the Church was being promptly rebuilt, and she was more magnificent than ever before….” “Then I saw an apparition of the Mother of God, and she said that the tribulation would be very great. She added that people must pray fervently with outstretched arms, be it only long enough to say three Our Fathers. This was the way her Son prayed for them on the Cross. They must rise at twelve at night, and pray in this manner; and they must keep coming to the Church. They must pray above all for the Church of Darkness to leave Rome…” “She said a great many others things that it pains me to relate: she said that if only one priest could offer the bloodless sacrifice as worthily and with the same disposition as the Apostles, he could avert all the disasters (that are to come). To my knowledge the people in the Church did not see the apparition, but they must have been stirred by something supernatural, because as soon as the Holy Virgin had said that they must pray God with outstretched arms, they all raised their arms. These were all good and devout people, and they did not know where help and guidance should be sought. There were no traitors and enemies among them, yet they were afraid of one another. Once can judge thereby what the situation was like.” “I see that when the Second Coming of Christ approaches, a bad priest will do much harm to the Church. When the time of the reign of Antichrist is near, a false religion will appear which will be opposed to the unity of God and His Church. This will cause the greatest schism the world has ever known. The nearer the time of the end, the more the darkness of Satan will spread on earth, the greater will be the number of the children of corruption, and the number of the just will correspondingly diminish… They built a large, singular, extravagant church which was to embrace all creeds with equal rights: Evangelicals, Catholics, and all denominations, a true communion of the unholy with one shepherd and one flock. There was to be a Pope, a salaried Pope, without possessions. All was made ready, many things finished; but, in place of an altar, were only abomination and desolation. Such was the new church to be, and it was for it that he had set fire to the old one; but God designed otherwise…. Again I saw in the midst of these disasters the twelve new Apostles laboring in different countries, unknown to one another, each receiving streams of living water from on high. They all did the same work. They know not whence they received their tasks; but as soon as one was finished, another was ready for them… The Jews shall return to Palestine, and become Christians toward the end of the world.”
Two different Jesus personas? Here is how Jesus speaks to Saint Faustina - with wisdom and without one word out of place and His sentences follow each other perfectly. When you compare it to Manuela Strack alleged message of "Jesus" her "Jesus" the way he speaks is a whole different person.
In our Lady of America Jesus speaks the same way as in the Divine Mercy Diary. You can tell from both the Divine Mercy Diary and Our Lady of America that it is the same person speaking.
In Discernment of Spirits I think there can be a danger of kinda teasing the embroidery apart. Of focussing exclusively on individual incidents or messages and not stepping back for a more general view. For instance in the story of St Bernadette that she scrabbled on the ground eating herbs abd everyone ran away. Or in the life of Jesus when claimed that a piece of bread was His actual body. Its better to step back and view things in a more general sense. The wider view. The danger of kind of unpicking the embroidery kind of discernment is that it may simply be a reflection of our own prejudgment. That we have already decided something is false and are casting about seeking evidence to support our own prejudgement. This is not Discernment. It is Prosecution.
Why does the Divine Mercy Jesus and Our Lady of America Jesus speak the same way with the same personality. Yet Manuelas Jesus does not.
It is a bit like the light that shines through stained glass windows. The same white light but transformed by the colours in each window. So too with souls. The same white light of the Holy Spirit. But filtered through the stained glass of different souls. Acts 5:34-39 34 But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35 Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36 Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37 After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”
Here is a link to Mystics of the Church with mystics we all know such as St. Gemma , Terese Neuman, Gabrielle Bossis etc. The way Jesus speaks to them in his persona with wisdom, clarity, sentence structure, etc. is the same as the Divine Mercy and Our Lady of America Jesus. You can tell its the same Jesus speaking to all of them. The only one out of place is Manuela's Jesus. https://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/
Be careful , if Manuela is true and is chosen of God that it may be very displeasing to Him that you are taking these public pot shots at her.
Agree! What difference does it make if a person thinks a visionary is false? We are not obliged to believe in any private revelations. So IMHO, it's prudent to let the matter drop once the point has been made. I tend to believe that Manuela Strack is genuine. Anyone may disagree with me.
Yes I believe she is true too. But the Church as she has wound up at the moment will never approve all this in a billion years. The heavenly truth is the last thing the Vatican would want to hear at the present moment. A bit like Padre Pio was an embarrassment and something they would love to just disappear. I remember the good old days when everyone was happy to just wait on the Vatican to decide one way at the other. I would not trust any of them to boil an egg at the present moment.
I also believe in Manuela's apparitions as true. My opinion only. And yes I agree padraig, that she will not be approved due to the gravity of the predictions. It seems only sugarplums and rainbows are waiting for us after death.
We only, have to look at this life to know their is a hell . Those poor drugs addicts for instance . Actions have consequences . There is no good pretending they don't
Agree. I too think Manuela is genuine along with a handful of other contemporary visionaries. Jennifer, Zaro, Medjugorje also come to mind. But if anyone is not comfortable with a particular seer just drop him/her. If you stick with Our Lady of Good Success alone I think you’re good to go.
True. Some 40 years ago or so the great mariologist Father Rene Laurentin said that even Lourdes would never be approved then given the absolute contempt and utter rejection the church had for the mystical and supernatural. And those were the “good old days “ of Pope John Paul. Imagine today.
Our Lady of Good Success is one of the apparitions I find it difficult to fully accept as genuine. I know that many of the 'prophecies' have come to pass but it doesn't seem to be conclusive that these messages were written at the time of the apparitions. I'd be delighted to be shown that I'm mistaken about this. I have looked for source information about the original reports of these apparitions and it is at least questionable. I think this Q and A from Catholic Answers puts the situation fairly clearly. Q&A Is Our Lady of Good Success Approved? Fr. Charles Grondin Listen to the audio version of this content Question: Are the Marian apparitions of Our Lady of Good Success approved by the church? Answer: "It is said that “Our Lady of Good Success” is an apparition to a Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres in Quito, Ecuador in 1599. There is a canonized saint named Mariana de Jesus de Paredes who lived in Quito, Ecuador and who is called “the lily of Quito.” However, no mention is made in her life of a Marian apparition and she was born after the time of the supposed apparitions so it cannot be her. The problem with authenticating the apparitions is that there is little information about Mariana de Jesus Torres outside of groups that actively embrace her cause. Even the Wikipedia entries about this person and the apparitions contain no citations. The most common claim is that a canonical coronation of the statue of Our Lady of Good Success in Quito took place in 1981. Even if this is true, this would add nothing to the veracity of the claim. Canonical coronations of statues or images are a recognition of great devotion and recourse made to them and not recognition of a claim of an apparition. Most of the claims are without supporting documents or references. I have spoken to a priest from Ecuador and he told me that the apparition is accepted but that there is debate regarding how much of the tradition is original and how much has been added over time."
Is that Jenifer from Words from Jesus? If so i remember a message from her given by "Jesus" back in the fall of 2010. The alleged message of "Jesus" was that there was supposed to be some sort of "rapture" in 2011. "Jesus" told her she wouldn't be here in 2011 because he was taking her. Yet, shes still putting out messages all these years later
The Church leaves approval of apparitions to the local Bishop . Several of the local Ordinaries have approved of the apparitions of Our Lady of Good Success down the centuries: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1...ionofMarianSanctuary.pdf?10811914710553614168 https://www.miraclehunter.com/marian_apparitions/approved_apparitions/quito/ Church Approval Bishop Salvador de Ribera of Quito attested in official documents to the miraculous completion of the Statue by St. Francis of Assisi and the three Archangels – St. Michael, St. Gabriel and St. Raphael – and presided over the anointing of the solemn consecration of the Statue in the Church of the Royal Convent of the Immaculate Conception on February 2, 1611. The devotion and apparitions were also authorized and promoted by the next Bishop of Quito, Pedro de Oviedo, who governed the Diocese from 1630 to 1646. A prayer to the Our Lady of Good Success has the imprimatur of a bishop, Carlos Maria, archbishop of Quito, who provided it in 1941 as a partial approval. The Feast of Our Lady of Good Success is celebrated on Februrary 2nd, the Feast of the Purification of Mary.
