All: I saw this on the news today, and I don't want to murmur or speak against the Pope. I just would value your collective thoughts on this, because I really respect all of your faith and knowledge. Maybe the media is just trying to stir up controversy, and you guys can explain this better without the bias of the media or the ultra-traditionalists: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/0...is-final-straw-sorts-for-wary-traditionalist/
Traditionalist Catholics who were attached to the old rite blame many of the ills afflicting the Catholic Church today — a drop in priestly vocations, empty pews in Europe and beyond — on the liturgical abuses that they say have proliferated with the celebration of the new form of Mass. In a bid to reach out to them, Benedict in 2007 relaxed restrictions on celebrating the old Latin Mass Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/0...-sorts-for-wary-traditionalist/#ixzz2Oz2cLuIp I consider myself to be a traditionalist,...I like attending the Latin Rite because I love the silence after Mass, and liturgical abuse just doesn't happen. In Benedicts Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum he stated the Latin Rite was never "abrogated" it was never resricted. The only ones who resticted it were local Bishops at the dismay of Pope Benedict. The Latin Mass is considered a treasure in the Church ,..as it has continued to be celebrated for over 1500 yrs. The Latin rite is being offered more and more,..so speaking from a traditional point of view there are many who hold tradition dear. The Bible even instructs us to hold on to tradition passed down through the ages from the apostles. To be quite honest that article very much disturbs me. Especially if it goes against Church law,...it kind of makes me think,..whats next. The Popes of the past have warned against modernism. I am a bit concerned about this. I was also curious as to why the Pope refused the red shoes,.. from what I understand, they represent the blood that ran down the feet of Christ. I have high hopes for this Pope as he is very devoted to Our Lady. I am a little perplexed.
Jon, I saw that article as well. In fact it was right after I was telling my children that washing of the feet is reserved to men, as an outward sign of the all male priesthood of Christ. I don't know what else to say about it.
Some of my conservative mates are getting a little nervous with the new humble style. I was hoping at the end of the ceremony Pope Francis would give them a blessing or maybe some rosary beads.He gave them easter eggs lol
Thanks for your thoughts. It makes me feel uneasy also, but it seems it isn't something many are comfortable talking about (me included). I hesitated to even post a thread, because I didn't want to begin a trend of any disobedience. I just had been fresh off of Holy Thursday Mass at my parish, where 12 young men were selected for the ritual, per the liturgical law...(and tradition)...
The foot-washing ceremony was only made part of the Mass in 1955 by Pope Pius XII, so it's not part of a long tradition. http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimm...pe-francis-washing-womens-feet/#ixzz2OyeOwmc4
I feel these revelations may be good because it will cause us to discern the fruits rather than blindly following.. I have to say though that I am a little perplexed too but it's early days yet.. When something goes wrong we always look for what seems right.. it helps us feel secure.
It's something to pray over. A sign of change certainly. I think Blessed Pohn 23rd signalled an openess to change in the liturgy by adding on a prayer to St Joseph or something at the end of the mass. A shot across the bow indicating Vatican 2 to follow. I take it the Pope is doing the same thing. Maybe I am wrong but I think the Pope should strive to change Church Rules rather than simply break them. As a President is not above State Laws, oerhaps a Pope should not consider himself above Church ones? If he asks us to keep them surely we can expect him to keep them... But something to pray about....
I suspect that it is more the MSM try to foment controversy than anything else. The proverbial "mountain out of a mole hill"? Let's continue to pray for Pope Francis.
It is an established fact that the more traditional seminaries (and orders) are the ones experiencing growth (or at least less contraction) than the more modernist (lax?) institutions and organisations. The Buenos Aires seminary has apparently been contracting for years with hardly any current candidates for the priesthood being trained there. Perhaps the Pope will note the statistics and apply the appropriate lessons in exercising his leadership.
I think Akin's article is doing a few contortions to come up with that conclusion. One is that he says the rite and the scripture are ambiguous concerning the 12 "apostles" versus generic "disciples". But anyone who attends Holy Thursday Mass knows it is the Mass of the Lord's Supper, and that the gospel account is of the 12 at the last supper. The other is that it only became part of the mass in 1955, kind of claiming the tradition is new. Apparently it was in the missal for almost 500 years, associated with the Mass of the Lord's Supper, but not inserted into the mass itself, after the homily, until 1955. It seems to be true that this was an evangelistic sign, as Akin puts it, but I think it is also true that it is immediately serving to cause division, not unity, because some may now follow in looking at other liturgical laws with flexible interpretations of their own, and may feel the example has been set.
Yes, we need to pray. This is concerning to me as well but I have to remind myself that it was a valid election. Because I have great respect for Fr. Jozo Zovko in Medjugorje, I'll share this quote and maybe it will calm some nerves. This was a quote from Fr. Jozo and he is referring in the first part to a visit in the early 1990's, in Argentina, with the then Archbishop Bergoglio: “We spent a long time together and talked about everything in Buenos Aires. And he was interested. We prayed together and at the end he asked me for a blessing. I touched one fine and good man. He is a good choice for a Church that is getting better, and there is no better person than Francis to rebuild the Church. Pope Francis’s gift to the Church is a fruit of the grace at this time. He dares to talk about our failures” Fr. Jozo tells Slobodna Dalmacija. Peace!
Jesus said: . . . whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,and whoever wants to be first must be your slave—just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many. Even though Jesus only washed the feet of male disciples, at the time He was using it to illustrate how they should imitate the Son of Man. The apostles were there to serve, not to be served, and therefore they were slaves to all of His followers. As a washer of feet, I see Pope Francis as having filled two roles. First, he stood in the place of Jesus who taught apostles about greatness through the foot washing lesson. Second, the pope stood in place of the apostles--Jesus's students--who were expected to put the lesson into practice by applying it to the larger community, which would certainly include women and inmates. In this light, the pope's actions mesh well with spirit of the rite. Personally, I don't think Pope Francis violated tradition. I think that he is simply the first pope to symbolically carry it beyond Jesus's initial lesson, showing how the apostles went on to become servants of "the many". I thought it was a beautiful gesture.
...And I'm sure just as many people have probably been to many Holy Thursday Masses where 12 young, male Confirmation candidates were chosen, and a tangible profound Grace could be witnessed in the effect it could have in discerment of their future vocations, whatever they may be.
This topic reminds me so much of the need for prayer and discernment. Every time I read another post I kinda start to change my mind another way.
I might seem as a conspirologist ( which I am generally not) but this deliberate changing of the rules looks to me like a distracting attention from something much more important. Our Holy Father is a very intelligent man, and I do not think it was done without a lot of thought. I could be wrong, of course. We all need to pray.
The washing of feet isn't a matter of canon law. It's a matter of rubrics, which means that it is not divine law. The pope is allowed to dispense himself (or anyone else) from the rubrics. He can also dispense himself from things that are in the canon law if they are not also divine law. And who makes canon law? The popes. It's just common sense to realize that the person who makes the law can dispense of the law as well.
There is a new article on the MedjugorjeToday.TV website about an interview with Mirjana on March 25th . She makes some comments about about Pope Francis during the interview and how he is needed for the present moment but is in need of our prayers. http://www.medjugorjetoday.tv/9233/mirjana-pope-needs-prayers-for-hard-road/
I have a few thoughts about that article that Jon posted. First is the reporter, N. Winfield, is hard-pressed to write or report anything complimentary about the Catholic Church. Her style seems to be divide and conquer. Second, I know that in my parish they wash feet of females and have for years and don't even bat an eye about it. Finally, I was not overjoyed on the election of Pope Francis and I think that I know why. If you think about the parable of the prodigal son... there is the faithful older brother (whom I most identify with) the wayward son and the dad. In Pope Benedict, I had a dad that kind of focused on me, the older faithful brother. Now in Pope Francis I have a dad that is focusing on the children that maybe need to be called back and fed and reconciled. It is the year of faith and for half of the year we have had Pope Benedict and for half we will have Pope Francis so by the end of the year maybe there will be a lot of people responding and coming back to the faith(?) I understand that now and will simply pray for him and for his message to get out and bear abundant fruit.
This was in the Hours of the Passion from Luisa Piccaretta. The washing of the feet My Jesus, your love seems untiring. You have your beloved disciples sit down again. Then, taking a basin of water, and girding yourself with a white towel, you kneel at their feet in such a humble way that it draws the attention of all heaven, turning it rapturous. The apostles themselves, seeing you kneeling at their feet, are almost motionless. But tell me, my Love, what do You want? What do You intend to do with this act so humble? Humility never before seen, nor will ever be seen again! “O my little child, I want every soul. So, as a poor beggar kneeling humbly before them, I ask, I beg, I insist; with my tears, I construct snares of love to catch them.. Prostrate at their feet, with this basin of water mixed with my tears, I want to cleanse them of any imperfection and prepare them to receive me in this sacrament. I so much cherish this act of receiving Me in the Eucharist, that I do not want to entrust this office to the angels, and not even to my dear Mama, but I Myself want to purify them, down to the most intimate fibers, in order to dispose them to receive the fruit of the Sacrament; and in the Apostles I intended to prepare all souls. I intend to make reparation for all holy works, for the administration of the sacraments, and especially for all those things that priests do with the spirit of pride, empty of the divine spirit, and filled with self-interest. How many good works reach me more to dishonor me than to give me honor, more to embitter me than to please me, more to give me death than to give me life! These are the sins which sadden me most. Yes, my child, go over all the most intimate sins by which I am offended, one by one, and satisfy me with my own reparations, and console my embittered heart.” My tormented love, I make your life my own; and together with you I intend to make reparation to you for all these offenses. I want to enter into the most intimate hiding places of your Divine Heart and repair with your own Heart for the most intimate and secret offenses with which your dearest ones offend You. O my Jesus, I want to follow You in everything, and together with You I want to make present all the souls who are about to receive You in the Eucharist, enter into their hearts, and place my hands together with yours, to purify them. O Jesus, with your tears and with the water with which You washed the feet of the Apostles, let us wash the souls who will receive You. Let us purify their hearts. Let us inflame them; let us shake them free of the dirt that soils them, so that when they receive You, You will find joy in them instead of bitterness. But, my affectionate Good, while You are all intent on washing the feet of the Apostles, I look at You, and I see another sorrow which pierces your Most Holy Heart. These Apostles represent all the future sons of the Church. And in each one You see the variety of all the evils that will arise in the Church, each a continuation of your sorrow. In one you see weakness, in another deception; in this one, hypocrisy; in that one, love of interests. In Saint Peter you see the lack of determination, and all the sins of the leaders of the Church. In Saint John you see the sins of your most trustworthy. In Judas you see all the apostate, with the series of all the grave evils which are caused by them. Ah, your Heart is so flooded with sorrow and Love that You cannot bear it, and You pause at the feet of each Apostle. Your tears flow, as you pray and atone for each of these offenses, asking for the remedy corresponding to each need. My Jesus, I too unite myself to You; I make your prayers, your reparations and your appropriate remedies for each soul, my own. I want to mix my tears with yours so that you may never be alone, but may always have me with you to share your pains. My gentle love, while you continue to wash the feet of the apostles, you now come to Judas' feet. I hear your labored breathing; You not only cry —You sob. And, while You wash those feet, You kiss them. You press them to your Heart. Unable to speak—your voice choked by weeping—You look at him through eyes swollen with tears. With your Heart, You say to him: My son! I beg you, with the voice of my tears, do not go to Hell! Give Me your soul. I lie prostrate at your feet, and I am begging you… Tell Me what you want. What do you ask of Me? I will give you everything —only do not join the lost. I am your God —spare Me this pain!” And you again press those feet to your heart. It aches, seeing Judas fixed in his hardness. Your suffocating love almost causes you to faint. My Heart and my Life, let me hold You in my arms. I understand that these are the loving ways that You use with each hardened sinner. Please, my heart, as I share your sorrow and atone for the sins you receive from the souls that obstinately refuse to convert, I pray you to let us travel around the earth together. Wherever there are obstinate sinners, let us give them your tears to soften them, your kisses and your embraces of love to chain them to you so they cannot escape. I want to do this to console you for your pain at the loss of Judas. I think Pope Francis is trying to call back all sinners,...Let us continue to pray for him in these difficult times.
