The Conclave

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by BrianK, Apr 28, 2025.

  1. FiliMariae

    FiliMariae Archangels

    I think you’re confusing infallibility with conditionality. Sacred Scripture (AND Sacred Tradition, that’s VERY important, we’re not heretics) are infallible. Private revelation is not infallible. But some private revelation is not conditional. Our Lady’s prediction that Sts. Francisco and Jacinta would die soon was not conditional. It had to happen. If you believe in Garabandal, God has revealed that the Warning/Miracle would definitely happen. The lives of the Saints are full of predictions that were never presented as conditional.

    As I said, the Church does not interpret these verses in that way. We cannot go about interpreting verses as we please. Now, I never said God hates it for the Jews, he knew that it wasn’t what was best for them at that time. I explained this quite clearly. I Miss Christendom has an excellent YouTube series defending monarchism from a Catholic perspective. He backs it up with Sacred Scripture and infallible Papal Statements. He does it better than I can!

    The election of a Pope is vastly different from the election of a secular president over a secular state promoting the error of religious indifferentism.

    If you really respect Our Lady, you’ll imitate her. That’s what St. Alphonsus Ligouri says. If you can’t be bothered to join her Son’s Church, you don’t respect her. Making a few twitter posts and having inter religious prayer meetings in the White House isn’t living the imitation of Mary.

    Perhaps Europeans and Canadians have more to be proud of: at least their nations were once Catholic. Americans are proud of their errors and their heretical view of freedom.

    I think I’ll trust what Our Lady has said in approved apparitions concerning the conversion of Russia and the conversion of England over consp
     
  2. Pax Prima

    Pax Prima Powers

    As I posted above all revelation is conditional. The only revelation which is not conditional is that which pertains to the Revelation of Christ. The private revelations you mentioned came to pass, but I am positive they also could have changed if God willed it. Our Lady could have come in a subsequent vision telling the children that due to the prayers of the faithful they won't have to die young. If the warning/miracle pertains to God's plan of salvation, then it will have to happen. Otherwise it doesn't.

    Our Lady gave 4 promises at the end of the 2nd secret. St. Francis told the mother of Blessed Carlos some absolute prophecies as well. But unless they are tied in with the revelation of Christ, they are conditional.

    Samuel 8:7-8 it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods

    It's absolutely clear to me that God hates being rejected by the Hebrews, but kindly indulges them anyway. Just like with divorce. So if this is the precedent, I don't see how God would suddenly appreciate other monarchies. He appears to use them as a means. Mainly because he doesn't like men ruling over men. We see what happens with that, especially today as men lust for power. God only asks for 10%. How many Kings, Presidents, Prime Ministers and so on ask for everything without end. The vast majority of kings in Israel and Judah were evil.

    Romans 13:1 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

    God still chooses the rulers which reinforces the fact that he uses them as a means, but it is absolutely clear from above that it breaks His heart. He wants to be King, and have judges over the people.

    You said democracy is evil. Now you are differentiating between different democracies. This is relativism. Either democracy is evil or it isn't. Adding caveats undermines your argument as it would imply that democracy is inert and changes with conditions.

    How do you know he hasn't already secretly? We all know the US would have a melt down if Trump openly became Catholic.

    Canada was never Catholic, only Quebec. Now Quebec is an atheist province and Montreal a sin city. Europeans I met that were arrogant weren't the Christians, but the atheists.

    By all means, I am not trying to convert you. But you like to say what is and what can't be. I will debate this.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2025
  3. FiliMariae

    FiliMariae Archangels

    I certainly do not think those prophecies were conditional. To me God willed them as such and they had to be. Our Lady certainly never presented it in such a manner, I don’t like putting words in her mouth. She never stated they were conditional and thus, to me, they weren’t conditional. She says what she means and I trust her.

    Ironically, the papacy isn’t a democracy, it’s the last absolute monarchist state in the world (at this time). So that argument doesn’t stand up.

    We don’t get to decide how to interpret these verses. The Church has never presented a document which states that these verses should be interpreted as a mass condemnation of all monarchies. Rather, the Church has gone about canonizing monarchs! These people are infallibly in Heaven, we can’t go around saying God hated their position. Curiously no American president has ever been considered for sainthood and the American form of government is condemned as an error.

    God does like men ruling over men, that’s why His Church is not structured like a democracy like the heretics but rather like a monarchy. You really need to watch I Miss Christendom’s series on monarchism, he explains it incredibly well.

    How do I know he hasn’t converted? Well firstly, do you have any real evidence he has converted? We all know what Christ says about those who deny Him before the others! You also cannot be a true Catholic and promote mortally sinful actions. You have to be ready to give up your life for your faith or you will lose your soul.

    Quebec is a large part of Canada and all of Europe was at one point Catholic. So they have a good heritage to be proud of. America doesn’t have that. I’m still sticking with the traditional chronology which is presented in Our Lady’s approved apparitions rather than in baseless conspiracy theories which Vatican insiders haven’t suggested.

    I’ll leave on this quote by St. Robert Bellarmine: “"If monarchy is the best and most excellent government, as above we have shown, and it is certain that the Church of God, instituted by the most sapient prince of Christ, ought to [be] best governed, who can deny that the government of it ought to be a monarchy?"

    And one more by Pope Pius VI: “In fact, after having abolished the monarchy, the best of all governments, [the French Revolution] had transferred all the public power to the people - the people... ever easy to deceive and to lead into every excess.”

    Lastly, we’ve entirely forgotten the main point of our discussion: if Trump is the Great Monarch. I think it’s plain to see that he is not!
     
  4. Philothea

    Philothea Archangels

    I don't want to jump in here but learning history with my kids has really opened my eyes about democracy!
    I am pretty sure the Church has what's called an elective monarchy. I would disagree strongly that God hates monarchies. If Christ had a better a plan for geopolitical systems he would have specified so in the Gospel, as you pointed out with divorce. God wanted to rule the Israelites directly, we see that with God being present as they carried the Ark of the Covenant but that wasn't enough for them and God yielded giving them kings. And I can't blame them, how often do any of us put other things/creatures before Christ in our own hearts when He should reign supreme?

    As far as democracy being evil, why not? Why do people believe it's the best form? And I mean any form of democracy, direct, constitutional, or aristocratic? Democracy relies on the fact that all members must be moral. And then you get into the question what is moral, what is good? Can you have civic education without mixing it with religion? John Adams even said the American constitution would only work with religious and moral people abiding by it. And why religious people? Probably because we need the fear of God in us inorder to keep us on the right path. Socrates argues men must know the virtues and practice them and his ideal world would be governed by philosopher-kings. Isn't that what existed during the "dark ages"? Look at the list of saintly kings Charlemagne, St. Stephen of Hungary, St. Louis, St. Alfred the Great, St. Edward the Confessor. These are men who contemplated the ultimate good, Christ the Saviour and put His virtues in practice. It is far easier to have a good and moral man governing the masses than expecting the masses to be good.

    And just to ask, how is Trump this amazing man when he seems to be bringing about Noahide law? Check out Harvard suing the Trump administration. If the administration wins it will only be a matter of time before Masses (because they quote historacl facts about Jews) will be outlawed under these guidelines.
     
  5. Marygar

    Marygar Byron

    And he will not be a Cardinal.
     
  6. Ananchal

    Ananchal Vigilans

    I am reminded of Our Lord’s words in the garden of gethsemni - watch and pray.
     
  7. Luan Ribeiro

    Luan Ribeiro Powers

    I think a monk, because the Orthodox in a way see contemplative monasticism as a source of revelation for the Church's doctrine. When Leo was elected, for a moment I thought all Augustinians were monks like Luther before he broke with the Church... but still, it's interesting to have an Augustinian pope anyway.
     

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