The same Michael Davies, apologist for the Pius10 movement of excommunicated Archbishop Lefebvre??? who said Rome has become the seat of the Anti Christ like Martin Luther stated Jesus Promised the gates of hell would never prevail against His Church...but Michael knows better....buyer be ware!
with all due respect Michael Davies was a great man of faith and worked tirelessly to ensure that the mass of ages be available to our childrens children. Now your character assassination may be due to ignorance of who he was and what he worked to achieve but that does not excuse a scurrilous broadside on a faithful catholic who had no less a personage than Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger lament his passing and give testimony to his love for the Church and the awesome heritage of faith bequeathed us by our ancestors that would have been tossed on the scrap heap if not for men like him
With All due respect to you Malachi, Arch Bishop Lefebrve was excommunicated by Pope John Paul II FOR CONSECRATING BISHOPS , without Romes/Popes approval. Your dramatic condemnation of me telling the truth is interesting. If it wasn't for Cardinal Ratzinger I would be a member of the society of St Pius X. Facts are Facts.Davies in his numerous writings,however orthodox they may be, reject the Vatican II era Church. all I can say is Thou art Peter and Upon this ROCK !
I forgot to add, excommunication was lifted by Pope Benidict but the society is still in schism with Rome.The society will not accept Romes terms of re-union...
So why would Pope Benedict lift the excommunications? Can you explain ? Did you even watch the video?
It all looks highly complex... The SSPX will soon be in the fold ... http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/04/argentina-formally-recognizes-sspx-as.html
In my opinion,I believe Benedict lifted the excommunication due to a couple reasons. The society toned down its venom to Rome and this led to more fruitful discussion.2nd) Signs of the times we live in and Christs return. Peter holds the key and what Peter locks shall not be opened. I'll let papa Benedict explain his actions... Vatican City, Jan 24, 2009 / 09:20 am (CNA).- Pope Benedict XVI has lifted the excommunication of the four bishops from the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) ordained by Marcel Lefebvre in 1988 in a decision he hopes will lead to “real and final unity.” The statement, released in Italian, recalls that because the Episcopal consecrations of June 30, 1988 were performed by Marcel Lefebvre without pontifical mandate, “the four aforementioned Prelates had incurred the excommunication latae sententiae, formally declared by the Congregation of Bishops on date July 1st 1988.” A press release from the Vatican quotes the words of a letter from Bishop Fellay to the Holy Father: “we are always firmly determined in the will to remain Catholic and to put all of our energy to the service of the Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the Roman Catholic Church. We accept Her teachings with filial spirit. We firmly believe in the Primacy of Peter and his prerogatives, and because of that we suffer greatly by the current situation.” The release continues by explaining that the Holy Father, who has followed the Church’s relationship with SSPX from the beginning, “has always tried to heal the fracture with the Society, even personally meeting Bishop Bernard Fellay,” in August 2005. http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...ommunication_of_bishops_ordained_by_lefebvre/
Pope Benedict lifts excommunication of bishops ordained by Lefebvre “On such occasion, the Supreme Pontiff expressed his will to proceed gradually and in reasonable stages down such path and now, with pastoral concern and fatherly mercy, by means of a decree from the Congregation of Bishops dated January 21, 2009, revokes the excommunication applied to the aforementioned Prelates.” “The Holy Father has been inspired in this decision by the hope of reaching the soonest possible full reconciliation and complete communion,” the statement concludes. The Decree The Decree from the Congregation of Bishops begins by recalling a letter dated December 15, 2008 written by Bishops Bernard Fellay on behalf of the other three bishops who were consecrated on June 30, 1988. The letter, addressed to Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos, President of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, “requested the lifting of the excommunication latae sententiae formally declared by decree of the Prefect of this Congregation for Bishops dated July 1st 1988.” http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...ommunication_of_bishops_ordained_by_lefebvre/
"Your dramatic condemnation of me for telling the truth". Now I'm not going to get into a game of verbal brickbats with you but you appear to be overly sensitive in claiming I condemned you personally. No where in my post did I condemn you for telling the truth. What I did call out was your calumnious attack on Davies in spite of the "facts" that clearly demonstrate his fidelity to the Church. To place him and for that matter Lefebvre in the same category as Luther is not only morally objectionable but displays a remarkable level of historical ignorance. That Davies passionately rose to the defense of the faith in response to those who deliberately sought its destruction merits both my admiration and gratitude. If it were not for him I would go so far as to say that Pope Benedict's motu proprio summorum pontificum would not have seen the light of day. The planned destruction of catholic faith and worship willed by Bugnini and his fellow saboteurs in the name of Vat II is now an indisputable fact. One must be very careful not to conflate the documents of Vat II (which are not without problems) with its interpretation and implementation. That there has been a rupture in the faith since the council is also a fact, and a fact that I should not need to convince any serious catholic or impartial observer of. Davies was no sedevacantist or schismatic, and he held firm to the doctrine of the Church's indefectibility to the end; this also is a fact. I would also like to add that there is no animosity or bad will in my posts and I avoid like the plague ad hominem assaults on peoples character and intentions. I do however enjoy robust debate with a bit of passion so apologies if I have come across as being a bit belligerent
All of a sudden you seem so learned IJoP. I wish you had chimed in when the forum was struggling with whether a Transsexual should receive communion or not .
Well said Malichi, Michael Davies was a great defender of the Catholic Faith, and so undeserving of a character assassination. If we as Catholics would take the time and do a little homework to get the facts,...we would be so much better off, now wouldn't we!
[/quote] No hard feelings Malachi : ) I cant locate a 1990's magazine that put statements made by Lefebrve and Luther side by side and how close they were to each other.I wont find it soon im sure. but I did find a few Lefebvre quotes from Lefebrve sources.... “Rome has lost the Faith, my dear friends. Rome is in apostasy. It is not just words, it is not just words in the air that I say to you. It is the truth. Rome is in apostasy. One cannot have confidence any more in this world. He the pope has left the Church; they have left the Church; they are leaving the Church. It is sure, sure, sure!!!” The rite of the new mass is a bastard rite, the sacraments are bastard sacraments. We no longer know if they are sacraments which give grace or do not give it. The priests coming out of the seminaries are bastard priests, who do not know what they are. They are unaware that they are made to go up to the altar, to offer the sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ and to give Jesus Christ to souls. PROPHETIC WORDS FROM THE GREAT ARCHBISHOP MARCEL LEFEBVRE!!!! https://catholic4lifeblog.wordpress...he-vatican-for-the-first-time-in-its-history/ none of my words.... They even throw Michael Davies under the bus
No hard feelings Malachi : ) I cant locate a 1990's magazine that put statements made by Lefebrve and Luther side by side and how close they were to each other.I wont find it soon im sure. but I did find a few Lefebvre quotes from Lefebrve sources.... “Rome has lost the Faith, my dear friends. Rome is in apostasy. It is not just words, it is not just words in the air that I say to you. It is the truth. Rome is in apostasy. One cannot have confidence any more in this world. He the pope has left the Church; they have left the Church; they are leaving the Church. It is sure, sure, sure!!!” The rite of the new mass is a bastard rite, the sacraments are bastard sacraments. We no longer know if they are sacraments which give grace or do not give it. The priests coming out of the seminaries are bastard priests, who do not know what they are. They are unaware that they are made to go up to the altar, to offer the sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ and to give Jesus Christ to souls. PROPHETIC WORDS FROM THE GREAT ARCHBISHOP MARCEL LEFEBVRE!!!! https://catholic4lifeblog.wordpress...he-vatican-for-the-first-time-in-its-history/ none of my words.... They even throw Michael Davies under the bus for returning to Rome 2 years before he died...[/quote] No hard feelings at all it is one of those divisive topics that must be handled with great care. Unfortunately Davies was indeed thrown under the bus by many in the traditionalist movement and this caused him great suffering. But again this only shores up the point that I was making about his fidelity and love for the Church. With regards to AB Lefebvre we ought not isolate his oft passionate statements from the polemical and heated context of the day. That there was a real betrayal of catholic faith is certain. That he felt compelled under the circumstances to ensure that he handed on the catholic faith unspoilt by the errors of modernism and the revolutionary intent of the saboteurs of the council is ultimately I would argue justification for his genuine concern for the faithful at large and especially those under his charge. The 1970's were a living nightmare for the catholic faithful. The Church is still largely in shambles and reeling from the effects of the abominations of that shameful period in church history were larger games than we here can fathom were afoot. Of course with 20-20 hindsight it is easy to perceive the pitfalls and extremes that passion and belligerence can lead but I am convinced the Archbishop died a faithful catholic and a man of integrity and honour. If you are ever in dublin we can talk it out over a few pints and a bit of banter
No hard feelings at all it is one of those divisive topics that must be handled with great care. Unfortunately Davies was indeed thrown under the bus by many in the traditionalist movement and this caused him great suffering. But again this only shores up the point that I was making about his fidelity and love for the Church. With regards to AB Lefebvre we ought not isolate his oft passionate statements from the polemical and heated context of the day. That there was a real betrayal of catholic faith is certain. That he felt compelled under the circumstances to ensure that he handed on the catholic faith unspoilt by the errors of modernism and the revolutionary intent of the saboteurs of the council is ultimately I would argue justification for his genuine concern for the faithful at large and especially those under his charge. The 1970's were a living nightmare for the catholic faithful. The Church is still largely in shambles and reeling from the effects of the abominations of that shameful period in church history were larger games than we here can fathom were afoot. Of course with 20-20 hindsight it is easy to perceive the pitfalls and extremes that passion and belligerence can lead but I am convinced the Archbishop died a faithful catholic and a man of integrity and honour. If you are ever in dublin we can talk it out over a few pints and a bit of banter [/quote] If you are ever in dublin we can talk it out over a few pints and a bit of banter Sounds good to me Malachi ! : ) I look forward to a visit someday to Knock...My Grandfather was baptized in the Old Knock Church
Lefebvre “Rome has lost the Faith, my dear friends. Rome is in apostasy. It is not just words, it is not just words in the air that I say to you. It is the truth. Rome is in apostasy. One cannot have confidence any more in this world. He the pope has left the Church; they have left the Church; they are leaving the Church. It is sure, sure, sure!!!” Such a contrast with Christ's words 'You are Peter and on this Rock I will build my Church'. What a lot of people forget is that Jesus said 'my' church. It is not Luther's church, Lefebrve's church but Christ's church and he has given us a cast iron guarantee. The Word has given us His word!
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last nite....lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=wm-h7YR_410
