There do not seem to be any comments on this forum about the Pope's visit to Turkey this weekend. I have been following almost every step of the way on the Vatican YouTube channel at: http://www.youtube.com/user/vatican I copy here a short, notable, extract from the Holy Father's homily during the celebration of Mass yesterday taken from the Vatican Insider website at: http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/world-news/detail/articolo/francesco-turchia-37801/ The Holy Spirit “brings forth different charisms which, at first glance, may seem to create disorder. Under his guidance, however, they constitute an immense richness, becausethe Holy Spirit is the Spirit of unity, which is not the same thing as uniformity,” Francis said. “When we try to create diversity, but are closed within our own particular and exclusive ways of seeing things, we create division. When we try to create unity through our own human designs, we end up with uniformity and homogenization.” “The Church and other Churches and ecclesial communities are called to let themselves be guided by the Holy Spirit, and to remain always open, docile and obedient,” the Pope said underlining that “ours is a hopeful perspective, but one which is also demanding. The temptation is always withinus to resist the Holy Spirit, because he takes us out of our comfort zone and unsettles us; he makes us get up and drives the Church forward. It is always easier and more comfortable to settle in our sedentary and unchanging ways. In truth, the Church shows her fidelity to the Holy Spirit in as much as she does not try to control or tame him. We Christians become true missionary disciples, able to challenge consciences, when we throw off our defensiveness and allow ourselves to be led by the Spirit. He is freshness, imagination and newness. Our defensiveness is evident when we are entrenched within our ideas and our own strengths – in which case we slip into Pelagianism – or when we are ambitious or vain. These defensive mechanisms prevent us from truly understanding other people and from opening ourselves to a sincere dialogue with them.” “In our journey of faith and fraternal living, the more we allow ourselves to be humbly guided bythe Spirit of the Lord, the more we will overcome misunderstandings, divisions, and disagreements and be a credible sign of unity and peace,” the Pope – whose homily was also pronounced in Turkish – said.
The moves towards Unity are wonderful. The two religious leaders had also met several times on Saturday, when Bartholomew thanked the pontiff for his pursuit of the "fraternal and stable advance … for the restoration of full communion between our churches." View attachment 2421 Bartholomew blessed Francis at the pope's request http://www.dw.de/pope-meets-orthodox-leader-at-close-of-turkish-trip/a-18102284
I could foresee the unification beginning by sharing the same liturgical feast of Easter on the same day. This will be a good 'right first step' as Charlie puts it and it will open the way for the Holy Spirit to further unify the Orthodox and Catholic faith's. I can see where the ulta-right could further distance themselves from Pope Francis, because there will have to be some concessions that will make the pope look weak to them, but I think the Holy Spirit will have his way on this one. The way I figure it is, since the radical Muslims are joining forces to wage war on the world, why not the radical Christians come together, led by our Pope, to fight them where it hurts, which is on unity in truth and spirit.
Yes, unifying the dates of Easter is very important. Readers of the True Life in God messages are very aware that the Lord has called for this for many years. And He has said that if this task is done, then HE will unify the Church. Earlier this month, the Spanish translator of the TLIG messages was able to present the newly published Spanish edition of the complete messages to Pope Francis. She wrote that at the end of her meeting: "when he was turning to the next person I called him: "Holy Father, please unify the date of Easter!". He looked at me and said, touching his forehead: " My little daughter, I have it here!". There is a photo of the meeting below. I would just add that I think this unification will only happen if the Catholic Church takes on the Orthodox date. This is because the Orthodox themselves do not have a single leader and it is very unlikely they would all agree to a change of date.
Can someone provide a brief explanation of why the dates are different and why would it be a "big deal " for the RC to change the date to coincide with Orthodox?
I think that a simplified answer to that question is that the Catholic Church started using the Gregorian calendar in the 16th century, but the Orthodox kept to the Julian, at least partly! (more knowledgeable people can correct me if I'm mistaken here!) Here is some info from Wikipedia on attempts to unite the dates: 1923 attempt[edit] An astronomical rule for Easter was proposed by the 1923 synod that also proposed the Revised Julian calendar: Easter was to be the Sunday after the midnight-to-midnight day at the meridian of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem (35°13'47.2"E or UT+2h20m55s for the small dome) during which the first full moon after the vernal equinox occurs.[8][9] Although the instant of the full moon must occur after the instant of the vernal equinox, it may occur on the same day. If the full moon occurs on a Sunday, Easter is the following Sunday. This proposed astronomical rule was rejected by all Orthodox churches and was never considered by any Western church. 1997 attempt[edit] The World Council of Churches (WCC) proposed a reform of the method of determining the date of Easter at a summit in Aleppo, Syria, in 1997:[10] Easter would be defined as the first Sunday following the first astronomical full moon following the astronomical vernal equinox, as determined from the meridian of Jerusalem.[11] The reform would have been implemented starting in 2001, since in that year the Eastern and Western dates of Easter would coincide. This reform has not been implemented. It would have relied mainly on the co-operation of the Eastern Orthodox Church, since the date of Easter would change for them immediately; whereas for the Western churches, the new system would not differ from that currently in use until 2019. However, Eastern Orthodox support was not forthcoming, and the reform failed.[12] The much greater impact that this reform would have had on the Eastern churches in comparison with those of the West led some Orthodox to suspect that the WCC's decision was an attempt by the West to impose its viewpoint unilaterally on the rest of the world under the guise of ecumenism. 2008–2009 attempt[edit] In 2008 and 2009, there was a new attempt to reach a consensus on a unified date on the part of Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant leaders.[13][14] This effort largely relies on earlier work carried out during the 1997 Aleppo conference.[7][15] It was organized by academics working at the Institute of Ecumenical Studies of Lviv University.[16][17] Part of this attempt was reportedly influenced by ecumenical efforts in Syria and Lebanon, where the Greek-Melkite Church has played an important role in improving ties with the Orthodox.[18][19] There is also a series of apparition phenomena known as Our Lady of Soufanieh that has urged for a common date of Easter.[20]
Since this thread has already mentioned the appeals for the unification of the date of Easter found in Soufanieh and the True Life in God messages, I might add that there is also a third, albeit far less well-known 'prophetic witness' on the subject, the French-language alleged locutions received by Marie-Claire Liberatore (supported by René Laurentin and Belgian Primate André Léonard), a.k.a Fille du Soleil de Justice, which have a strong ecumenical focus, featuring repeated calls for the unity of Christians around the 'three whitenesses' (trois blancheurs) of St John Bosco - the Eucharist, Mary and the Pope. I have read some 400+ pages of these and in terms of language, tone and content they would seem to bear all the hallmarks of authenticity IMHO. One message dated May 21, 2005, was received a few days after the locutionary had celebrated Easter first with Catholics, then in an Orthodox community; ...My child, I asked you to rebuild my Church, my Father bitterly resents the quarrels which divide it - let he who thinks he is infallible humble himself and work for Unity; how long are you going to let my enemy do what he wants with the house I created with my own blood?! I beg you to take the first steps, heaven suffers at seeing so many arguments between you; when will you understand that your lack of love and your pride have made of my Church what she is today. My instrument [i.e. Marie-Claire L.] took part twice this year in Easter celebrations on different dates. How many times did I die and rise again during my time on earth two thousand years ago? This is how I see it. Do you think that your Easter celebrations, however successful they may be, fill me with joy? However convincing they all may be, they leave me with a deep sense of bitterness. Behind me I hear my enemy savouring his victory - do you really want his victory? NO - well prove it to me. I am using this poor instrument to make you understand that I want no more division in my Church, every failure in reconciliation will be considered by me as a lack of love towards the Holy Trinity that we are. Let my Ministers agree among each other to rebuild my Church that I want to be INDIVISIBLE, HUMBLE, SIMPLE; let the word 'love' be forever engraved in your hearts and on your faces. You claim to belong to the Church of Christ, so work for CHRIST and not for my enemy, that the Will of our Father should be done on Earth as in heaven. You have fought vigourously for the demolition of my Church; today I ask you to work RESOLUTELY [fermement] for her reconstruction, then the angels in heaven will exult, my Father and I will bless you. http://dondesoichemindevie.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/unitc3a9-de-la-date-de-pc3a2ques.pdf
The Pope, as usual, spoke to the journalists on the plane back from Turkey. There is a good account of the Pope's words at: http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-turchia-37828/
The argument over the date for Easter used to cause huge fights and bad feelings. It seems so strange to us in modern times but it was once so. In Ireland the Celtic Church was heavily influenced by the East and so the Eastern Easter was observed. However gradually with the rise of the influence of Rome we moved over to the Roman date. But it caused the most huge, impassioned rows and fights. Its wonderful to see these old wounds healing.
I've just been made aware of a new article on this matter at: http://www.asianews.it/news-en/For-...-Pope-Francis'-ecumenical-openings-32932.html It contains the following which includes comments from Pope Francis on the practicalities of Unity that I have not seen reported elsewhere: During the return flight to Rome, when asked by a Russian journalist about the prospects of dialogue with the Moscow Patriarchate, Pope Francis said, with his usual, surprising simplicity, "First I'll say something about Orthodoxy in general, and then I'll 'come to' Moscow. I believe we are moving forward . . . . What are we waiting for? For theologians to reach an agreement?" During the in-flight news conference, the pope said, " I'll say something that a few, perhaps, are not able to understand: the Eastern Catholic Churches have a right to exist, but Uniatism is a dated word. We cannot speak in these terms today. We need to find another way." Thus, talking to reporters, the pope, in a single sentence, removed one might say the stumbling block between Orthodox and Catholics that has existed for many centuries (the first Union, that of Lyon, dates back to 1274), which had lately become the major obstacle to dialogue. For the first time, a Roman Pontiff expressed a view about this controversy that coincides with the Orthodox position. In the recent past, the Russian Orthodox Church has increasingly insisted that in the future the question of primacy, in the framework of the Joint Commission for Theological Dialogue, will have to be addressed in parallel with the evaluation of the phenomenon of Uniatism. We can say that on 30 November 2014, the Catholic Church not only accepted the conditions laid down by the Russian Church, but with his unexpected statement, its supreme head expressed disapproval of the phenomenon of Uniatism. After such an unprecedented statement, Pope Francis continued the conversation with reporters. Speaking candidly about a meeting with Patriarch Kirill, he said, "there is the problem of war in these times. The poor man has so many issues there that the meeting with the pope has been put on the back burner. Both of us want to meet and move forward." Aware of internal opposition in both Churches from ultraconservatives, the pope said it was important for Orthodox and Catholics to agree on the Easter calendar and rejoice together. In each Church, according to Pope Francis, internal conflicts arise from a certain spiritual "introversion", from the fact that the Church is self-referential, turned in upon itself and its problems. Therefore, "We cannot wait: Unity is a journey, a journey that must be done, that we must do together," said Francis, the Bishop of Rome. Will the Russian Orthodox Church respond to these words? Or will the sound of internal problems resonate far stronger than the Saviour's prayer for the unity of his disciples and followers in the centuries to come?
Im a little unclear on the whole schism thing. Once a group of Catholics go into schism,as many think the conservatives might, Then the Pope will ask for their blessing ? And try to change things to bring unity?
