Its only afterwards that a person, rising out of it by sheer grace; is transformed and can look backwards to see that it was a 'night' and now can rejoice in the 'day'. Is that right?
You had me worried there for a second, Padraig, but then I remembered your conviction concerning your own death. Your dog doesn't fit the bill! Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
I have recently returned to this personally most meaningful book. It is falling apart with comments filling up the margins. I highly recommend it! Safe in the Flames of the Sacred Heart!
Its only afterwards that a person, rising out of it by sheer grace; is transformed and can look backwards to see that it was a 'night' and now can rejoice in the 'day'. Is that right? Yes Marti.If you believe you are in it you aren't in it. On the other hand because your Spiritual Director, perhaps has told you you are in it you kinda miight know it distantly but not really know it or believe it with your heart. Fir it is at the centre of such suffering that it appear meaningless in imitation of Jesus Himself. When I was younger and thinking of Jesus carrying His Cross I used to think , yes, well but He knows what He is up too andthat the Ressurection is heading just round the corner and that would be a big bonus. But when Jesus said, ;Why have you deserted me?' He really felt like His Father had took off to distant parts and left Him to it. If in the Dark Night we felt strongly , 'Well here I am in the Dark Night', we would in a sense own it and control it and it would not be Night anymore it would be day. I ften think it is the same say with people who commit suicide or indeed with al lsuffering. Often particualrly with young folks who kill themselves, if only they could see what we older folk know so wel, that the vast majority of stuff is only so temporary , to see beyond the immediate pain it would change things ottally, wouldn't it? Its the same for all suffering I suppose isn't it? When we see beyond it we start to claim ownership of it/. I would suppose maybe it must be a little like this for a woman in childbirth? That maybe she sees beyond the pain to bringing forth a child and this makes the pain a little more bearable. Tell me if I am wrong, I;m not claiming to know. But in the Dark Night there can be no such claim of ownership.
Yes, Terry that book, 'When the Well runs dry', is a very great consolation, isn't it? To read the words of someone who actually went thorugh it. One of my greatest consolations was my Spirtual Director. I recall again and again getting the bus down from the city to see him in his monastery. But at the end of the day Fr BErnard himself had never been through the Dark Night and Father Green so clearly had and there is no guide like one who has walked the road before you.
I think you might like Father Arintero too. 'Father John Arintero has described the dark night of the spirit in great detail, and he places it at the height of the unitive way, prior to the transforming union. We quote a small part of his description as a fitting conclusion to our study of the active and passive purgations. That this union may be changed from the conforming union to the transforming union, God himself must work in the soul in a manner that is hidden, mysterious, and painful. He rids the soul of all sensible delights which it experienced in the former union wherein the delight of the spirit redounded to the senses. God seems to hide himself now, but actually he is much more intimately united to the soul. The soul is amazed at the change it now experiences. It believes itself to be abandoned, yet it finds that it is improved in every way. The change is most profitable, but the soul is unable to understand how this can be so .... In the formidable spiritual darkness wherein the soul is buried in its mystical cocoon and is incapacitated for working by itself or for possessing any initiative at all, it believes itself to be imprisoned or buried in hell itself. Nevertheless it is gradually undergoing the mysterious change from the conforming to the transforming union although the soul itself is scarcely aware of it .... Thus is verified the obscure and prolonged interior activity which renews souls and disposes them for the mystical espousal. Later it leads them gradually to the total transformation which is required for the mystical marriage.(20)'
Jesus Walked This Lonesome Valley Hymn Lyrics Jesus walked this lonesome valley. He had to walk it by Himself; O, nobody else could walk it for Him, He had to walk it by Himself. We must walk this lonesome valley, We have to walk it by ourselves; O, nobody else can walk it for us, We have to walk it by ourselves. You must go and stand your trial, You have to stand it by yourself, O, nobody else can stand it for you, You have to stand it by yourself.
I too have suffered deep grief, (my fiance died in a car accident at age 24, and I too had to identify his body). I also lost my husband to another woman, and helped both my parents die more recently. Grief without God (like I had when I lost Jay, my fiance) is a whole lot different than grief when you "have" God (meaning in a state of grace, and having a good daily prayer life). The dark night of the soul is a very different thing. One should still feel the peace of God, and reason tells them that God loves them, and they are trying, but yet there is such a dryness, like God is not there. One almost feels that no matter how hard they try, God has given them up. Also while praying, it feels like a mere act....that connection that was previously felt is gone, and one just cannot make the connection. I say one should still feel God's peace, because once it was given to me, I have been able to feel it like a caress every day since 1997. Once when I begged Jesus never to take that peace away from me, He said "I do not give as the world gives" and of course, He gives forever and willingly as compared to the world, who always has conditions to their giving. The Dark Night should be a state of us giving to God, and not getting anything or much in return (at least we THINK we are not getting anything in return). It does not stop our ability to reason, to do our daily duties, ect..like mental illness or severe grief usually does. It is a yearning for God, a desire so strong, and yet He seems not to care, not to come to quench this yearning at all. Like a lover holding back, and away from home, and you are not getting what you desire. Yet you still love, you still desire! This kind of prayer is the most valuable, because we are loving God without getting something in return, we are loving God when it is hard to love God, and that is a true gift to God, and also to purify us.
For me, and at the time I had no idea, and just dawning on me. All faith was gone, everything in me cried out that God didn't exist, before this, that I was just a stench up his nose and He was hailing down punishment on me. Was absolutely awful, I didn't realise. It went from this to my faith appearing to get up and go. Every warm fuzzy feeling, all peace gone.. Got up and left, my feelings, emotions ect were doubting the existence of God. My old faith as I new it died. I had to tell God that I believed Him, because I knew that He walked the Earth and lived the Truth. I looked at Him in the Blessed Sacrament and was feeling so desolate, that I said to Him, I know that you are there, everything in me is crying out that you are not there. But I know that you are because you are Truth. I just had to hang on to what I knew, The Mass, The Blessed Eucharist, Holy Scripture, Prayer.. I was like the woman who had lost her pearl. That period was sheer hell. But the childish faith as I knew it fell away, and a new faith emerged. I can't stand platitudes now, or people trying to comfort me with soft words, or to say God won't let that happen because He loves you etc. I deal with Truth and Truth alone. I know whatever comes my way God will get me through. I have found that I have become more detached to the world, everything has lost it's lustre. I just hunger for God all the time.
It almosts sounds to me as if you were under spiritual attack with what you describe. And of course that may be also able to happen in the middle of a Dark Night. But most in Dark Night feel love for God and believe VERY MUCH. They love very deeply, yet do not feel fulfilled in that love. They do more and more for God, in both prayer and works, like Mother Teresa, yet feel that they have been abandoned by God. Most people that are in a state of depression are just that. They are not loving God, just thinking of their own misery, and wanting relief. They can be led to dispair and even suicide by demonic influences, because they ARE so wrapped up in thier own misery. They may be praying alot, but not to love God, but more to get relief. So anyway, we somehow have to distinguish the symptoms between what is not a Dark Night. If a person has committed themselves to prayer, and has been moving "forward" in their relationship with God, and stays committed, then it is probably a Dark Night. If they were never in any committed state of daily prayer, and just "give up", it sounds more like sadness or depression.
No, that lasted a long time, even now, I am constantly yearning for God, a new faith emerged out of that experience, it lasted for a couple of years. But now, my faith is so different, it is grown up if that makes sense. Although I am continuously yearning for God so much that it actually hurts. The only thing that relieved me back then was when I prayed. But I would have mystical experiences too (consolations, like a light relief) Now, I just hunger for God so much, it is a yearning deep within my soul, prayer relieves it. If for whatever reason I can't get to the Church (we have exposition all the time) I miss God soooooooooo much.
I felt complete love for God during that time, just like I couldn't reach Him, every consolation, everything was gone, even doubt.. Mother Theresa experienced a lot of doubt during her dark nights
All I know is that I am a novice at all this stuff, I don't have a name for the things that I experience, my priest smiles and says God is drawing me closer!! I was hoping that he would tell me to forget everything!!
Yes that desire that you have for God is a huge prayer in itself. I remember before I got converted I NEVER thought about God. Now since then it's every minute. I'm a 3rd Order Carmelite and the first 2 years we spent group studying St Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross with the books Interior Castle, and Way of Perfection, with group discussions, so I am following her description, but am no means an expert myself either. She was very adament on making sure people knew the difference between spiritual things and mental things. Personally, I can never tell what the heck is wrong with me spiritually until its over. I too get very few consulations now, and then usually right before some really bad news in my life so that I'm almost afraid of them! I have grown to also be dependant upon the Eucharist. I can't really put my finger on any feelings with it only that my day and life are so much better on the days I receive it. I have "felt" angels at mass, but once I saw the corpus on the cross come alive at mass, and blood profusely dripping down the big crucifix's leg, and it was very distracting and upsetting! I kept looking around thinking everyone else must be seeing it too but I don't think anyone else did.
No, I have been unaware too, until the consolations come and then is a huge relief, like a big cloud has lifted. And I am free. And I think, wow, I have been missing you so much, and the consolations and the cloud lifting is like honey on my lips. The sweetness of God fills my soul.... That is the only way that I can describe it.. As for yearning for Him, I am starving... Incidentally, during that time, (I love playing praise music and hymns, worship) whenever I heard the song is anybody thirsty ... I used to say.. thirsty!! God, my tongue is sticking to the floor!!!
Yes after my conversion, I was really annoying my family and friends by running around begging them to repent, and not to sin anymore, because someday they would see Him and understand what sin does to Him! and I would cry and hybernate in my room and sit at the Church. They called me all sorts of names, like "fanatic", and sit down and have longs talks with me, and tell me God loves me and wants me to be happy, and not to worry about Him, He can handle it... I just could not be consoled for months though. I basically had the Spirit and was shouting it from the rooftops back then (if I came out of my house at all, as I usually tried to be alone with God as much as I could) I wish I had some of that fire left! But now it's different, I still can't stand to see or hear of sin, but at least I can live in the world and not be so annoying to people. They seem to actually listen to me now when I talk about God, so perhaps it's better this way
I still can be annoying though, especially to strangers. If I overhear a girl talking about dating someone else's husband, for example, at a restaurant, I may turn around and say "Do you realize you are breaking a commandment of God, and that your soul is in terrible danger of being sent to Hell if you should die in this state?" They may not like it, but I guarantee they will think about it and wonder about it ....
I am enjoying reading all your posts on this subject. I have always been interested in mystical prayer and the Dark Night is fascinating, the subject of poets,writers and artist for centuries. Bt its so long since I wrote on this I have kinda lost my thread. So I will simply describe what happned to me, with side references to what the Night is , how it effects souls and where it leads to etc. THings liek this are more entertainng and understandable when told i nthis was, I suspect and anyway the Irshlove telling stories. My first understanding of the black locomotive barreling in my direction was in the cloister of my monastery about four o'clock on a snowy winter's morning.... I wa s perched on a chair overlooking the monastery garth garden. Suddnely the good Lord told me interiorly that I would have much to suffer for Him shortly. Well I took it on the chin very well. not I hasten to say because I was brave and self sacrificing but becuase I simply did not understand the gravity of what was coming down . i f I had I would ahve run screaming for cover. I think the reason why I did not understand, or at least one fo the reasons was this. I always loved reading the lives of the saints. In al lthe lives, naturally we read of the saints suffering. I think I, like many people put myself in their place and kind of picured myself , 'on stage' with an audience admiring me swoonign in pain. Or to put it another way there was an awful lot or ego in my readyness to carry the Cross. To put it another way I thought unciously that in suffering I could be my own biggest admirer. THat I would suffer ,yes, but I would have an audience of one , myself . In fact this is not how it works. The Dark Night is about death to the ego, to the self. One of the first things you loose in the Dark Night is a sense of purpose or meaning to suffering. So I am afraid the first thing we loose is an admiring audience. In fact for em this is the epitome or kernal of the Dark Night. The soul may think itself simply deluded, mad, or imaging the whoel deal. Thus when Jesus says, 'My God, my God why have you forsaken me?' It was not just a figure of speech ; He really did believe He had een left alone...
So in those far off days my favourite place in the monastery was in the Infirmary Chapel. It was a little room for the sick, a tiny little chapel with the Blessed Sacrament where no one else hardly ever went. I used to spend several hours every day praying there alone. It was a beautiful spring evening as I was praying when I heard the Lord say, 'I want you to go outside this place to pray..' Well I was surprised by this as I loved it there and there'd never een any complaints before. But I checked it was ture by listneing and then went out. You know it was only years later on thinking about it I relaised that when Jesus said, ' I want you to go outside this place to pray...', He not only meant to go outaside the Cahpel to pray but His real deep meanig was that He wanted me to go outside the monastery to leave, that my voaction was in prayer outside. This as you will have found yourselves is the nature of the Holy SPirt as He speaks inside us, it is many layers and deep. ..and why did I not understand what He was saying? Well I suppose because I jsut wasn't ready too. But a dream at that time pointed me in the same direction. I dreamt I was showing a young man who was thinikng of joinig round the monastery. He was saying to me, 'How much you love the monastery! How happy you are here!' But in the dream I turned to him and said, 'Within a month i will have left this place!' I woke up from this dream luaghing to myself it just seemed so unlikely I would leave , utterly fantastic because I WAS just so happy there. But as it panned out the Night came down and I had decamped within a moth , jsut as the dream indicated.
When the Night fell if came almost at once...or so it seemed in any case perhaps in the space of two or three days. It is so very,very difficult to explain the complete pain and trauma of it. But in order to do so I have to explain that mywhole life by that point was complete prayer. I would say in the infirmary chapel alone I was spending three or four hours a day in front of the Blessed Sacrament alone. This may appear very commendable but I was getting the most huge returns for this, I was getting this huge sense of peace and joy, it was though I weas on a constant cloud nine. Bliss, total bliss. I think I had spent the three or four years with a huge grin on my face I was so happy. But I have to underline this , though I was giving I was getting a hundred times back . So I am not saying there was not something to be praised in my spiritual life, for it is alwsy meritoroius to live a life of deep prayer. But still looking back on it , there was really a huge amount of ego and self in all this. I was very like Job in the Book of Job. I was faithful to God, yes; but i wasn;t faithful to God for nothing I was just literally snowed under with blessings. For every cent I gave God was giving me a million dollars in return. But you know also the story with Job...the devil went before the Throne of God and said, 'Yes Job is Faithful. But is it any wonder? Look at all the goods you have given Him! But let me try him and see if he will then still be faithful'. Job 1 New International Version (NIV) Prologue 1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. 2 He had seven sons and three daughters, 3 and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East. 4 His sons used to hold feasts in their homes on their birthdays, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular custom. 6 One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.” 8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” 9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.” 12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.” Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord. ..and God said , 'let it be so...'.
