A wise person pointed out something I had not noticed in statements emanating from the Vatican in recent times which I had not noticed but am now very alert too. That is that certain personages are fond of pointing out to us all how humble they are. I know you will not believe this but really it is quite true. There have been references as to , for instance how so and so intend to act humbly in such and such a way, or has always acted humbly. This makes me laugh. For of course the very last thing someone who was really humble would do would do is boast of how humble they are. I noticed this in a recent Vaticanese statement by a certain Cardinal who spoke of the need to, '.....leave behind a mundane spirituality'. Well it seems to me if I follow this through the rest of us have an ordinary every day spirituality whilst his Eminence appears to have an 'Extraordinary' one I find this hilarious but also troubling. But don't start me about the Vatican.....
Yes we are on the cusp of huge events , Mac. I would say two big things are in action right now, Russia and Syria (war) and events in the Church 9shcism) But there are several more worth watching out for, economic collapse, radicals seismic shifts, continuing radical climate shifts., revolutions , plagues and......most notably of all celestial events. it is events in the sky which will be the big biggie I think. The four horsemen of the Apocalypse.
I have only just seen the above quote from Fatima's many posts. I see no reason to doubt that Pope Francis did express the view that half of all marriages are invalid. This is precisely why Cardinal Kasper and others are pushing for a change in the rule on Communion for the divorced. The reason that the problem of invalid marriages is different to other invalid sacraments is that there is very little that the Church can do to reduce the problem. The problem is in people's hearts and beliefs. The only way that invalid marriages could be reduced in a significant way, under present conditions, is to bring in such draconian rules that hardly anyone got married in church any more! I do not think that would be a good way forward. While making this comment, I will post the link to a lengthy interview from Vatican Insider where Cardinal Kasper explains in some details the reasons for his views on Communion for the divorced. The full interview is spread over three pages. I will just copy here the last paragraph from the interview: “In no way,” Kasper clearly stressed during the interview, “do I deny the indissolubility of a sacramental marriage. That would be stupid. We must enforce it, and help people to understand it and to live it out. That’s a task for the church. But we must recognize that Christians can fail, and then we have to help them. To those who say, “Well, they are in a sinful situation,” I would say: Pope Benedict XVI has already said that such Catholics can receive spiritual communion. Spiritual communion is to be one with Christ. But if I am one with Christ, I cannot be in a situation of grave sin. So if they can receive spiritual communion, why not also sacramental Communion? I think there are also problems in the traditional position, and Pope Benedict reflected a lot about this, and he said that they must have means of salvation and spiritual communion. But spiritual communion goes very far: it’s being one with Christ. Why should these people be excluded from the other Communion? Being in spiritual communion with Christ means God has forgiven this person. So the church, though the sacrament of forgiveness, should also be able to forgive if God does it. Otherwise there is an opposition between God and church—and that would be a great problem.” http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/world-news/detail/articolo/kasper-33955/
'So if they can receive spiritual communion, why not also sacramental Communion? ' Thats got to be the stupidest question Ive read on here. Simple Catechism. My 8 yr old could answer this. Shameful!.
For the Church, for the people of the Church. The Church is for sinners. It is there to save souls from being lost.
In my opinion, our pastors have been a large reason for bad marriage's. In my experience and awareness of what my children went through in marriage preparation by the priest it is a joke. Few, very few priests, would have no problem marrying a couple who were already living together (it happens in my Church all the time, especially with the Hispanic's). There is little to no faith/marriage development being done by the priest prior to marriage. This is one very important reason why many marriages do not last, because they are not sincere when they tell the priest during the sacrament of marriage that they will raise children in the faith and they will be open to receiving children (not using contraception). Few, very few are open to life in the marital act. 90+ % are using artificial birth control. Should this invalidate a marriage if they had not intention to be open to life in the marital act? These should be some of the problems discussed in the up coming synod.
Mac, just one clarification. Father Malachi did not say 'all events would be over' in 20 years, he said the3rd secret will have been manifested by then. In other words, I surmise that Father is saying that the events of the 3rd secret of Fatima will be well under way within 20 years from his statement made in 1997, not that they would be through.
davidtlig posted: While making this comment, I will post the link to a lengthy interview from Vatican Insider where Cardinal Kasper explains in some details the reasons for his views on Communion for the divorced. The full interview is spread over three pages. I will just copy here the last paragraph from the interview: “In no way,” Kasper clearly stressed during the interview, “do I deny the indissolubility of a sacramental marriage. That would be stupid. We must enforce it, and help people to understand it and to live it out. That’s a task for the church. But we must recognize that Christians can fail, and then we have to help them. To those who say, “Well, they are in a sinful situation,” I would say: Pope Benedict XVI has already said that such Catholics can receive spiritual communion. Spiritual communion is to be one with Christ. But if I am one with Christ, I cannot be in a situation of grave sin. So if they can receive spiritual communion, why not also sacramental Communion? I think there are also problems in the traditional position, and Pope Benedict reflected a lot about this, and he said that they must have means of salvation and spiritual communion. But spiritual communion goes very far: it’s being one with Christ. Why should these people be excluded from the other Communion? Being in spiritual communion with Christ means God has forgiven this person. So the church, though the sacrament of forgiveness, should also be able to forgive if God does it. Otherwise there is an opposition between God and church—and that would be a great problem.” A spiritual communion is surely not the same as a literal communion. Cardinal Kasper is taking Pope Benedict out of context. Benedict is in no way indicating that those who desire a spiritual communion are necessarily in the state of grace. Neither is he indicating that a person who asks for a spiritual communion is forgiven of their sins, especially mortal sin, which the church is clear must be confessed in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. This is at best, very confusing words by Cardinal Kasper.
Thank you Padraig, Davidtlig, Fatima and Mac on your discussion. This gives me a good idea of "the who" of the forthcoming schism that's going to come about because of the Synod. I now know that what ever camp Cardinal Kasper falls into is the wrong camp. The schism is already slowly happening...the Synod will just expidite the schism. My only question and concern is...can Pope Francis theoretically be on the wrong side and yet the Church dogma remain intact. I know we have had bad Popes before yet the Church retained her dogma. How does one stand against a bad pope whilst remaining a faithful Catholic...exactly how would this look...any thoughts...anyone?
Read St. Catherine of Siena. She was an expert at faithfully supporting the Church and weak/bad popes. As I recall, when urging the Pope to return to Rome, she wrote, "You stink. I can smell you from here." and "Be a man!" She also called the pope "My sweet Baboo." The pope who followed was truly evil, and she was much more reserved with him. http://www.drawnbylove.com/
This is dangerous talk. The messages from Verne seem to have gained quite an acceptance on this forum. Let me quote a few passages from them: Many of you act and think you know better than my pope, your Holy Father. When you act this way, you are telling me, Jesus Christ, you know more than me. Stop trying to be the Pope and tell him how to lead my church. You have not been given the mission to be Pope. Any voice, which leads you to schism against my son the Pope, do not listen to them. Today in my church, many factions are questioning the authority of the Holy Father. I ask you: do you have the power to loose and bind? These words do not apply to you. If you are in rebellion, calumniating, or causing others to question the authority of my vicar, you are in rebellion against me. You will be held responsible for those you lead astray, if you do not repent. By your words and actions, you are persecuting me. Now it is true that these same messages talk about a false antipope: The day will come when a false antipope will try and lead my church. If you are in a state of rebellion against my church now, will you even recognize a false pope? There are definitely people who already believe Pope Francis is false. It is an utterly absurd position to hold yet I can see the devil hard at work trying to convince the 'chattering classes'... So, to answer your question, Timothius, those who decide they know better than the Holy Father are in great danger of believing, in the words from Verne, that they know better than Jesus.
We seem to be going round in circles here (again). Thanks, David, for quoting the message to our Verne Dagenais: it needs to be emphasized that in it, as in the messages to Pedro Regis quoted elsewhere, that the prophecies concern an antipope, which Pope Francis quite definitely is not as he was legitimately elected. It also needs to be said on the basis not only of the messages to Verne D. but also those to Don Ottavio Michelini (cameriere segreto to Pope Paul VI) that the rebellion against the authentic Magisterium which has been in progress for 50 years now comes both from the theological left (liberalism) and the theological right (ultra-conservatism). It cannot simply be assumed that being faithful to Christ consists exclusively in adopting the hardest, most rigid line possible in all situations - to those who may doubt this, try reading the locutions received by Ida Peerdeman of the approved apparitions of Amsterdam, in which Our Lady specifically says (in the late 1940s/50s) that the Church needs to become more modern, more 'social' but without compromising on doctrine, which cannot be changed. What emerges time and again from the latter-day prophetic corpus is that the sure path is the middle way, the 'hermeneutic of continuity' consistently followed by St John Paul II and Benedict XVI. To think that Pope Francis has already departed from this line, especially when his relationship with his predecessor is one of obvious mutual esteem, is surely premature at this stage.
Yes. Obedience to the Pope any Pope is a Spiritual thing, very,very Catholic. In fact you could say this inner obedience defines us as Catholics. Without it , without this trustful obedience who, what are we? Where are we going? We are like little ships without rudders. It is the same thing , (though to a much lesser extent) with a Spiritual Director. I believe I would have jumped of the roof if mine had told me. If we do not trust and obey the Holy Father who do we trust? Who do we obey? One thing for sure when we cut loose from the Pope we are no longer Catholics. We are effectively Protestant. I remember telling my father and mother this years ago and my fathers face turning a funny shade of purple. But it the truth. Also I find in some of the Posts a certain like of peace, of inner turmoil of an urgency which is not of the Spirit. It is a source of concern to me.
Because both my parents were Traditionalists I have a certain sympathy to misdoubts. To a point. But on the other hand this is a Catholic public forum . Literally thousands of people are reading these posts and I have duty of care to my other Catholic readers and members here. Please show great caution and restraint when commenting on our Holy Father. Please.
I was just reading the following message from Verne, and thinking of posting it. Now, I'm sure this is something we all need to take to heart: 6/07 P.M. (p. 37) My son as the deception increases, it will be more difficult to see the truth. The more you understand and receive, the easier it becomes to be deceived. Remember Satan and his demons are angelic in nature. Their understanding of divine things is far greater than human understanding. A soul without my divine life in it is dead spiritually. It does not take a great deception to deceive that soul, it is already deceived. But once a soul has my life in it, Satan changes his tactics. The more you submit to my divine will in your life, the more subtle Satan has to become. 2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear lest, as the serpent seduced Eve by his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted and fall from the simplicity that is in Christ. Remember Adam and Eve were created without sin. Only the subtilty of the serpent caused Eve to sin. This is a warning for my remnant especially. The more knowledge of God you understand and receive, the greater is the temptation to think you are God. This is how the serpent seduced Adam and Eve. It originates in pride, with a lack of humility. Again, pride has led to the downfall of many of my faithful. The more you receive, the more people forget the source of their knowledge- God almighty. The test for my remnant will be primarily through the deception of spiritual pride. Remember 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. For such false apostles are deceitful workmen, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers be transformed as the ministers of justice, whose end shall be according to their works. Read closely for such false apostles. There will be people masquerading as part of my remnant church but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Why? Because they have been deceived by spiritual pride. As I told you, wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. A simple test, anyone who gives themselves credit for their knowledge, revelations or miracles is being deceived by spiritual pride. Do not listen to them. It will become increasingly difficult to judge true messages from false messages. It will be only by the power of my spirit that you will have the graces to discern. Remember I am meek and humble of heart. Any words, thoughts, or miracles, which manifest even a small amount of spiritual pride discard, cast away, and do not read and dwell on them. It takes Satan only a small crack to deceive a soul and cause that soul to lose my grace. The more holy an individual becomes, there is an increasing danger to fall. How great that fall will be! That is why I remind my people that without me you can do nothing. If you see a soul progressing spiritually and then stop, pray for their soul that the deception can be removed. It is only through focusing on Jesus 100% that Satan will not be able to deceive you. This is how you can tell the children of light from the children of darkness. Let me explain this to you. The more graces you receive from me, the more God-like in your soul you become. For my children you are made in my image and likeness. But you do not become God. Now Satan injects the soul with spiritual pride. Now the soul thinks it has arrived spiritually and in its own pride takes credit for my graces and that soul becomes God-less without true repentance. The mark of a truly holy soul is the more you know God, the more you understand your unworthiness, and the more humble a soul becomes. This is a simple test. If there is a lack of humility in a soul, be very careful to trust their words and actions because by their fruits ye shall know them. Finally, at the day of judgment, many will come saying they were my disciples and I will say to them I never knew you. You cannot know me if you let spiritual pride take control of your life. You need to repent or else I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth because thou art lukewarm and your foundation is not built upon the rock Christ Jesus, but on your own human wisdom and understanding. Satan has deceived you and great will be the fall of that soul. Take these words as a warning. The words of the Lord.
Hold fast to the doctrines of the faith and you will not be deceived and led down the wrong path, whether it be through a future anti-pope, bad bishops or priests. If you cling to a pope no matter what, you may live in the time of the false prophet and loose your soul. If a pope holds to unchanging doctrine he has my complete fidelity to the end. Modern Catholic Dictionaryby Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J. DOCTRINE. Any truth taught by the Church as necessary for acceptance by the faithful. The truth may be either formally revealed (as the Real Presence), or a theological conclusion (as the canonization of a saint), or part of the natural law (as the sinfulness of contraception). In any case, what makes it doctrine is that the Church authority teaches that it is to be believed. This teaching may be done either solemnly in ex cathedra pronouncements or ordinarily in the perennial exercise of the Church's magisterium or teaching authority. Dogmas are those doctrines which the Church proposes for belief as formally revealed by God. (Etym. Latin doctrina, teaching.)
Sorry Fatima but what you are saying here is that you will follow the Pope only if, in your judgement, he 'behaves' himself. At least you are being honest about your position which I had begun to assume was as you have described. But your position makes nonsense of the doctrine of infallibility. Unfortunately, I believe many people will be led astray in the future because they will trust their own judgements rather than those of the Church. It will, in a sense, be a repeat of the Reformation.
