The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Well thank God for Bishop Schneider. It's time to tell it like it is.

    It's time to get angry.

    Very, very angry.and totally, totally intolerant of this crap they're trying to sell us.
     
  2. padraig

    padraig Powers

    But at least it's way out in the open now.

    We can see it for what it is.

    Thank the Good God for that.

    It's just a total horror picture.
     
  3. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    What a moron our pope is. I am NOT in his church!
     
  4. padraig

    padraig Powers

    He's far from a Moron. This has been brilliantly planned.

    brilliantly.

    Brilliantly. Straight from hell itself. They could even fool the angels.

    Brilliantly planned...straight from hell itself. Lucifer himself oversaw all this.

    Pure brilliance. Little good will it do them all.

    They were beaten before this little buisness even got off the ground.
     
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  5. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Finally. Faithful traveled to Rome and BEGGED JPII NOT to elevate him to cardinal based on these accusation, to no avail.

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2018/06/20/cardinal-theodore-mccarrick-abuse-accusation/

    Cardinal Theodore McCarrick Steps Down Amid Abuse Accusation
    NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) – Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, archbishop emeritus of Washington DC, has been removed from public ministry after an accusation he abused a teen nearly 50 years ago while serving as a priest in New York archdiocese.

    McCarrick, now at age 87, previously served as archbishop of Newark in New Jersey.

    The cardinal maintains his innocence but has accepted the ruling that the accusation was credible.

    Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York was tasked to investigate the allegation with a board from the Archdiocese of New York. After finding the allegations credible, Dolan recommended McCarrick be kept from public ministry until a final decision by the Vatican is made.

    “While shocked by the report, and while maintaining my innocence, I considered it essential that the charges be reported to the police, thoroughly investigated by an independent agency, and given to the Review Board of the Archdiocese of New York,” McCarrick said in a statement. “I fully cooperated in the process.”

    “My sadness was deepened when I was informed that the allegations had been determined credible and substantiated,” McCarrick said. “In obedience I accept the decision of The Holy See, that I no longer exercise any public ministry.”

    In New Jersey, two diocese where McCarrick served said they knew of three alleged sexual encounters involving the priest, but all were reported with adults.

    “The Archdiocese of Newark has never received an accusation that Cardinal McCarrick abused a minor,” said Cardinal Joseph W. Tobin in a statement from the Archdiocese of Newark.

    “In the past, there have been allegations that he engaged in sexual behavior with adults,” said Tobin. “This Archdiocese and the Diocese of Metuchen received three allegations of sexual misconduct with adults decades ago; two of these allegations resulted in settlements.”

    “This very disturbing report has prompted me to direct that the records of our Diocese be re-examined, and I can report to you that there has never been any report or allegation that Cardinal McCarrick ever abused any minor during his time here in Metuchen,” said Erin Friedlander, communications director for the Diocese of Metuchen in New Jersey.

    [​IMG]
    Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, archbishop emeritus of Washington, speaks about refugees on Dec. 8, 2015, in Washington, DC. (Photo by Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)

    “In the past, there have been allegations that he engaged in sexual behavior with adults,” said Friedlander. “This Diocese and the Archdiocese of Newark received three allegations of sexual misconduct with adults decades ago; two of these allegations resulted in settlements.”
    READ:
    Statement of Archdiocese of Washington
    Statement of Cardinal Theodore McCarrick
    Statement of Cardinal Timothy Dolan

    McCarrick’s statement echoes an official release by the Washington DC archdiocese:

    “Holy See, which has exclusive authority in the oversight of a cardinal, delegated Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York to investigate the allegation, engaging the review board of the Archdiocese of New York.

    In the end the review board found the allegations credible and substantiated.

    The Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Pietro Parolin, at the direction of our Holy Father, Pope Francis, has instructed Cardinal McCarrick that he is to refrain from any public ministry or activity until a definite decision is made.

    Cardinal McCarrick, while maintaining his innocence, has accepted the decision.

    While saddened and shocked, this archdiocese awaits the final outcome of the canonical process and in the meantime asks for prayers for all involved.

    At the same time, we renew our commitment to care for the victims who have suffered abuse, to prevent abuse before it occurs, and to identify and report child abuse once it has happened.”

    Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York also released a statement about the investigation into charges against McCarrick.

    “This archdiocese, while saddened and shocked, asks prayers for all involved, and renews its apology to all victims abused by priests,” said Dolan.

    McCarrick was born in New York City in 1930 and attended Fordham Preparatory School. After a year of study in Europe, he returned and enrolled in Fordham University prior to joining the priesthood.

    He also served as the president of the Catholic University of Puerto Rico during the late 1960s and returned to serve in New York City in 1969.

    An outspoken champion of humanitarian causes, McCarrick traveled the world and served as a member of the United States Commission for International Religious Freedom under President Bill Clinton.

    As archbishop of Washington from 2001 to 2006, McCarrick oversaw an archdiocese of more than 500,000 Catholics and 115 parochial schools in the District and Maryland. Pope John Paul II later elevated McCarrick to the College of Cardinals.
     
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  6. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/w...lighting-lgbt-youth-in-lead-up-to-youth-synod

    Why is the Vatican highlighting ‘LGBT youth’ in lead up to Youth Synod?
    Diane Montagna
    [​IMG]
    Cardinal Lorenzo Baldisseri speaks at a Vatican press conference announcing the working document for the 2018 Youth Synod. Diane Montagna / LifeSiteNews
    , , Wed Jun 20, 2018 - 3:41 pm EST

    catholic, homosexuality, lorenzo baldisseri, vatican, youth synod

    ROME, June 20, 2018 (LifeSiteNews) — Did Cardinal Lorenzo Baldisseri, the lead organizer of the Vatican’s upcoming Youth Synod, knowingly make a false statement or was he simply mistaken?

    At a June 19 Vatican press conference to present the working document of the October 3-28 Youth Synod, the Secretary General of the Synod of Bishops was asked why the phrase “LGBT youth” was used in the Vatican document.

    The Holy See has never used the phrase “LGBT” in a document before, the questioner pointed out, because the Church “does not classify people according to their sexual orientation.”

    Official Vatican documents instead speak of persons “who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex,” or who suffer from same-sex attraction. The Catechism of the Catholic Church describes homosexuality as “a disordered sexual inclination” and homosexual acts as “intrinsically disordered” and “contrary to the natural law.”

    Cardinal Baldisseri replied by saying the acronym LGBT is taken from the pre-synodal document compiled by young people at their meeting with the Pope and Synod organizers in March 19-24, 2018. Baldisseri said the synod organizers were “very diligent in taking into account the work done by the bishops’ conference but especially of the results of this meeting with youth, of which they were the protagonists.”

    “They provided us with a document, and we quoted it. This is the explanation for this,” he said.

    The reference to “LGBT youth” is tucked between two comments on migrants and interreligious dialogue in a section called “A community open and welcoming to all.” The relevant passage reads (we provide the immediately preceding paragraph for context):

    196. The pre-Synodal meeting saw the participation not only of young Catholics, but also of young people of other Christian denominations, of other religions and even of non-believers. It was a sign that the young people welcomed with gratitude, because it showed the face of a hospitable and inclusive Church capable of recognizing the richness and contribution that can come from each person for the good of all. Knowing that authentic faith cannot generate an attitude of presumption towards others, the Lord’s disciples are called to value all the seeds of good present in every person and in every situation. The humility of faith helps the community of believers to let itself be instructed also by people of different positions or cultures, in the logic of a mutual benefit in which it gives and receives.

    197. For example, in the IS [International Seminar on the condition of youth in the world (September 11-15, 2017)] some experts pointed out that the migration phenomenon can become an opportunity for intercultural dialogue and for the renewal of Christian communities at risk of regression. Some LGBT youth, through various contributions that came to the Secretariat of the Synod, wish to “benefit from a greater closeness” and experience greater care on the part of the Church, while some CEs [Episcopal Conferences] ask what to propose “to young people who instead of forming a heterosexual couple decide to form a homosexual couple and, above all, wish to be close to the Church.”

    This correspondent looked back at the final document of the pre-synodal meeting with youth in March, and the acronym LGBT does not appear. In the working document, i.e the Instrumentum laboris, it is not put in quotes.

    The incongruence between Cardinal Baldisseri’s words and reality comes amid concerns that the upcoming Youth Synod will be used to push forward an LGBT agenda within the Catholic Church.

    These concerns are heightened by the fact that a faction within the 2014 Extraordinary Synod on the Family sought to introduce a shift in the Church’s teaching on homosexuality through their interim report, releasing the document to the media before the Synod Fathers had seen or reviewed it. At the time, veteran Vatican journalist Sandro Magister said this introduction “would not have been possible without a series of skillfully calculated steps on the part of those who had and have control of the procedures.”

    At yesterday’s press conference, LifeSite also asked Cardinal Baldisseri — in reference to its use of the “LGBT” acronym — if we can trust the upcoming Synod given that the Vatican has invited Fr. James Martin to speak about openness to the LGBT community at the upcoming World Meeting of Families in Ireland this August.

    Fr. Martin, an American Jesuit priest, has drawn controversy for his views on relaxing the Church’s teaching on homosexuality.

    Cardinal Baldisseri replied: “The Synod is open. We naturally send an invitation to the president of the bishops’ conferences. They send the names of the bishops to Rome, to us. The Holy Father reviews the list and approves it. We need to trust the bishops’ conferences.”

    “For the rest,” he said, “we are open. We are pleased that the Synod is not closed, a ghetto, an internal affair of the Church. And there are various areas in the Church. There is freedom, there is freedom to express oneself on the right, left, center, north and south. This is all possible. That is why we welcome people who have different opinions.”

    The English translation of the working document is expected in the coming days.

    Note: The Catechism of the Catholic Church states regarding chastity and homosexuality

    Chastity and homosexuality

    2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

    2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

    2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
     
  7. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    :eek:
    We're going to end up being labelled The Church of sodomites at the rate they are going.

    And think about it. The sexual misconduct of a few clergy men, and that is a fact; because most 98% of clergymen are good holy men. But like those good holy men, we will all wind up tarred with the same filthy defiled brush so adored by the media.

    We can offer to our most beloved God, the shame and disgrace we must endure in these times. Our patience and endurance and offerings can serve to atone for our own human faults and failings in the sight of God. Let us Keep Watch and Pray, as we await the coming of Our Saviour to rescue us from all this.
     
  8. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    They keep moving the goal post an inch at a time. Slightly new word usage and ideas introduced in each new statement and document.
     
    AED, Mary's child and BrianK like this.
  9. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    The last couple paragraphs are a joy to read!

    https://onepeterfive.com/bishop-sch...n-synod-married-priests-and-female-preachers/

    Bishop Schneider on the Pan-Amazon Synod, Married Priests, and Female Preachers
    Maike HicksonJune 20, 2018 0 Comments
    [​IMG]
    In a new interview, Bishop Athanasius Schneider discusses the working document of the upcoming 2019 Pan-Amazon Synod and rejects the idea of ordaining married men. He argues that priestly continence is a Church tradition that goes back to Apostolic times. As to the role of women, he fears that the Church might soon imitate the German model of female pastoral assistants who now already preach and hold liturgies of the word in Germany.

    In a 30-minute-long interview with the traditional media outlet Gloria.tv that took place on 10 June in the Czech Republic, Bishop Schneider, the auxiliary bishop of St. Mary’s in Astana, Kazakhstan, comments on several themes, among them the importance of the traditional Latin Mass, the grave consequences of the papal document Amoris Laetitia, as well as the split within the Catholic Church.

    In light of the 8 June working document (Instrumentum Laboris) for the upcoming 2019 Pan-Amazon Synod, Bishop Schneider also touches upon the problem of ordaining married men to the priesthood, as well as the danger of giving women more prominence on the altar.

    Bishop Schneider sees that this new Vatican document tries to prepare the way for the priestly ordination of married men for that particular region in the world. However, he makes it clear that this initiative would soon spread throughout the world. He says that, with such a permission, “celibacy would de facto be abolished.” “One can see that immediately,” he adds, saying that only a child would not understand this deeper consequence of an exception granted for the Pan-Amazon region.

    The German prelate explains that such married priests “are in reality against the continuous tradition of the Church.” “To live as a priest in continence,” according to Bishop Schneider, “goes back to Apostolic tradition, this is not merely Church Law.” Already St. Augustine stated this, as did the Synod of Carthage. As Schneider says, it was already known in the fourth century that priestly continence goes back to Apostolic times. (Here the concept means a chaste life. Some priests might have been previously married, but they embraced perfect continence upon ordination.)

    As Bishop Schneider reminds us, all the popes in the Church’s history have insisted upon the priests’ and bishops’ chaste way of life, against all opposition – also from European rulers – and against all abuse in practice. When the Eastern Church, in the 7th century, broke away from this principle, “the Holy See never accepted it,” explains the prelate.

    With regard to the Eastern Rites and their permission of married priests, Bishop Schneider explains that this allowance is a “concession that was given to those of the Orthodox Church who wished to return to the Catholic Church.” These clerics, says Schneider, were given permission to “maintain a practice that they had for nearly 1,000 years.” The Roman Catholic Church, however, “should never give it up,” he adds, saying that a change of this discipline would be “against Apostolic tradition” and would have a “domino effect.”

    Were the Church to grant such a permission to ordain married priests for the Pan-Amazon region, Bishop Schneider fears that “other bishops or other bishops’ conferences would come and wish to apply it also to other regions.” “In a short time, priestly continence would be destroyed,” the prelate warns, adding: “And that is not to be.” Bishop Schneider therefore says “I hope that the Providence of God will not allow this to happen.”

    Bishop Schneider makes a similar comment when talking about the probability that the Pan-Amazon Synod will make proposals for some forms of female ministry for the Catholic Church of the Pan-Amazon region. “A sacramental ordination is impossible,” says the prelate. Rather, he could imagine that the Church would perhaps imitate the German model of female pastoral assistants who are already now receiving a blessing from the German bishops. They already now give homilies, preside over liturgies of the word which include the distribution of the Eucharist. “They do everything, except the Canon of the Mass,” Schneider explains. “We have it already!” exclaims the bishop. For decades, German Catholics have already seen women on the altar, wearing an alb, and presiding over liturgies.

    Thus, Schneider adds, the Pan-Amazon region could do it as it is in Germany. “I hope and pray that the dear Lord, the Providence of God, will not permit it,” Schneider says once more.

    In his conclusion to this section of the interview, Bishop Schneider insists that we have to protect and preserve “the pearl that Jesus gave us.”

    At the same time, the bishop of Astana encourages the Catholic faithful, in view of the current crisis in the Church: “Where sin abounds, grace superabounds,” he says with joy in his voice. Where there is so much darkness, “there shines a light, grace, even more.” He himself sees it in the whole world when traveling that there exist small pockets of the Faith everywhere. “I see in the whole world that the Holy Ghost is at work, that is to say through the many small groups, many young families, the youth, many seminarians and priests who live the Faith.” These Catholics try to live a moral life and be models for others.

    For Bishop Schneider, those who are in power in the Church – he calls them “the Church’s Nomenklatura” – are permeated with “the spirit of the world, with the naturalistic spirit, they lack the supernatural Faith.” They might have entered ecclesiastical offices, the prelate explains, and they might “have power over the small and the pure, and even try to suppress them”; they might also have “the power of the administration, money, reputation, media support, and public praise”; “But we have the Faith!” the bishop exclaims.

    “You have the power, but we have the Faith.” That is what the simple faithful can say to those in power, says Bishop Schneider. “We are richer and more powerful.” In his eyes, the Holy Ghost is already preparing “a spring in the Church.” “The snow field is still covered with snow, but one already see the little snowdrops which announce the the coming of spring. And these are all the small groups [in the world], who have no power, who are being suppressed, but who have power before God.” In conclusion, this faith-filled prelate says: “And the Mother of God is our mother, the mother of the Church, she holds us in her hands.” “And she is the conqueror of all heresies.”
     
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  10. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    I was in a very small email discussion group back in the late 90s and early 2000s that included Rod and I can verify everything he says in this article as correlating exactly with what he shared with us privately back then. I’m not surprised that he subsequently went on from his conversion to Catholicism on to Orthodoxy considering what he’d been exposed to.

    https://onepeterfive.com/cardinal-m...ministry-after-credible-allegations-of-abuse/

    Cardinal McCarrick Removed From Ministry After “Credible” Allegations of Abuse
    Steve SkojecJune 20, 2018One Comment
    [​IMG]
    An allegation of sexual abuse half a century ago has led to the removal from public ministry of Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, Archbishop Emeritus of Washington, DC. The disciplinary action was taken against him by Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican Secretary of State, on behalf of Pope Francis.

    McCarrick famously recounted, in a 2013 talk at Villanova University, how he was asked by “an influential man in Rome” to “talk up” Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio going into the conclave that ultimately elected him. At the time, McCarrick was too old to vote for a new pontiff, but he had influence. McCarrick predicted that “if he [Francis] has two years, he will have changed the papacy.”

    The accusation of abuse of a minor comes from a time when McCarrick was a priest in the diocese of the New York Archdiocese. The details of the offense have not been made public, but they were investigated by law enforcement and an independent forensic agency, with the results turned over to the New York Archdiocesan Review Board.

    They found the allegations “credible and substantiated.”

    Cardinal Dolan claims to be “saddened and shocked.” In a statement incredibly similar to that of the Archdiocese of New York, the Archdiocese of Washington — McCarrick’s last assigned post — echoed this same phrase: “saddened and shocked.” McCarrick himself claims to have “absolutely no recollection of this reported abuse” and claims innocence.

    McCarrick has nevertheless said he will accept the Vatican’s decision. Considering that the statute of limitations on his alleged crime has lapsed, being removed from public ministry at the age of 87 seems a fairly insubstantial penalty.

    American journalist and author Rod Dreher — who famously left the Catholic Church after covering the sex abuse crisis in the early 2000s — revealed that he has been waiting for this story to break since 2002. “I never wrote the story about McCarrick, because I could not get anybody to go on the record.” Dreher recounts:

    Back then, I received a tip from a priest who had gone on his own dime to Rome, along with a group of prominent US Catholic laymen, to meet with an official for the Roman Curial congregation that names bishops. It had been rumored at the time that Theodore McCarrick, the Archbishop of Newark, was going to be moved to Washington, DC, and to be made a cardinal. This group traveled to Rome to warn the Vatican that McCarrick was a sexual harrasser of seminarians. The story this priest shared with me was that McCarrick had a habit of compelling seminarians to share his bed for cuddling. These allegations did not involve sexual molestation, but were clearly about unwanted sexual harassment. To refuse the archbishop’s bedtime entreaties would be to risk your future as a priest, I was told.

    Rome was informed by these laymen — whose number included professionally distinguished Catholics in a position to understand the kind of harm this would cause –that McCarrick was sexually exploiting these seminarians, but it did no good. McCarrick received his appointment to the Washington archdiocese in 2000.

    In early 2002, though, the priest who tipped me off wouldn’t go on the record. It would have meant the end of his priesthood, quite possibly. He gave me the name of a couple of medical figures who had been on the same journey. I called one, who confirmed it, but wouldn’t go on the record. I called the other, who gasped when I said it out loud, and who said, “If that were true, then I wouldn’t confirm it for the same reason Noah’s sons covered their father in his drunkenness.”

    Dreher says that he received “more than a few calls from Catholic priests from the New Jersey area who had direct personal knowledge of McCarrick’s sexual derring-do with seminarians,” but that none would provide documentation or go on the record. So he was forced to sit on the story.

    “Whenever I would see Cardinal McCarrick on television that spring,” Dreher writes, “wringing his hands about how terrible the abuse scandal was, and how the hierarchy really had no idea how extensive the crisis was, yadda yadda, I knew that I was looking at a world-class liar and hypocrite. Moreover, I knew for a fact that the Vatican had been warned about ‘Uncle Ted’ before moving him to Washington, and that those warnings had meant nothing, because hey, Uncle Ted was well connected, and he was a champion fundraiser for the Church.”

    The nickname “Uncle Ted” seemed to be used frequently by those who knew McCarrick. Richard Sipe, a former Adjunct Professor at the Pontifical Seminary of St. Mary’s in Baltimore, wrote an open letter to Pope Benedict XVI in 2008. In it, he states that during his time at the St. Mary’s, “a number of seminarians came to me with concerns about the behavior of Theodore E. McCarrick, then bishop of Metuchen, New Jersey.”

    “It has been widely known for several decades,” Sipe continued, “that Bishop/Archbishop now Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick took seminarians and young priests to a shore home in New Jersey, sites in New York, and other places and slept with some of them. He established a coterie of young seminarians and priests that he encouraged to call him ‘Uncle Ted.’ I have his correspondence where he referred to these men as being ‘cousins’ with each other.”

    In his letter, Sipe referenced a 2005 article by Catholic journalist and 1P5 contributor Matt C. Abbott, who interviewed a “whistleblower priest” by the name of Fr. James Haley about one particular case he knew of where a seminarian was invited to sleep in the same bed with McCarrick.

    One former seminarian of Mount St. Mary’s in Emmitsburg, Maryland, who spoke with OnePeterFive on condition of anonymity, said that there were a lot of men from the DC Archdiocese at “The Mount” during his time there. He confirmed that it was very common during during McCarick’s tenure in DC for his seminarians to refer to him as, “Uncle Teddy.” “Now, whether they were involved in, you know, whatever with him, I don’t know…” the former seminarian told me. “I didn’t really ask or delve into it.”

    “If nothing else, that was just a common nickname for the guy. And this is at a place that’s, you know, probably… the most — or one of the most — conservative seminaries in the country.”

    The Archdiocese of Newark, where McCarrick also served as Archbishop for nearly fifteen years, also released a statement today. In it, Cardinal Joseph W. Tobin says that until now, they had “never received an accusation that Cardinal McCarrick abused a minor.” However, Tobin continued, “In the past, there have been allegations that he engaged in sexual behavior with adults. This Archdiocese and the Diocese of Metuchen received three allegations of sexual misconduct with adults decades ago; two of these allegations resulted in settlements.”

    On this point, Dreher expressed incredulity:

    When did the archdiocese and the diocese receive these allegations? The wording is ambiguous. If settlements were made, when were they made, and why did church officials not disclose to the public that their former leader screwed around?

    Why were so many bishops willing to run cover for Ted McCarrick all these years? Why?

    The former seminarian offered a possible answer: “All I can tell you,” he said to me, is that McCarrick “had a lot of pull.”
     
  11. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    https://onepeterfive.com/cardinal-b...o-have-received-the-dubia-before-publication/

    Cardinal Brandmüller Questions Francis’ Claim Not to Have Received the Dubia Before Publication
    Maike HicksonJune 20, 2018 0 Comments
    [​IMG]
    Today, on 20 June, Reuters published a new interview with Pope Francis. Although the interview is making headlines because of the Pope’s criticism of President Donald Trump’s immigration policy, it also contains another controversial assertion: the pope surprisingly now claims that he only heard about the Dubia (concerning his document Amoris Laetitia) “from the newspapers” — a claim that Dubia cardinal Walter Brandmüller has now questioned in comments to OnePeterFive. From the text of the interview:

    The pope also commented on internal criticism of his papacy by conservatives, led by American Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke.

    In 2016, Burke and three other cardinals issued a rare public challenge to Francis over some of his teachings in a major document on the family, accusing him of sowing disorientation and confusion on important moral issues.

    Francis said he had heard about the cardinals’ letter criticizing him “from the newspapers … a way of doing things that is, let’s say, not ecclesial, but we all make mistakes”.

    He borrowed the analogy of a late Italian cardinal who likened the Church to a flowing river, with room for different views. “We have to be respectful and tolerant, and if someone is in the river, let’s move forward,” he said. [emphasis added]

    He thus implies that the Dubia cardinals did not follow the correct ecclesial procedures and violated the law of courtesy toward the pope by making their text public without first sending it to him privately.

    We also contacted Cardinal Walter Brandmüller, one of the four Dubia cardinals, asking him for comment. The cardinal responded in writing and said the following:

    The Dubia were first published after – I think it was two months – after the Pope did not even confirm their reception. It is very clear that we wrote directly to the Pope and at the same time to the Congregation for the Faith. What should be left that is unclear here?

    Vatican journalist Edward Pentin tweeted earlier today, also contesting the pope’s account, saying “he received the dubia two months before the cardinals went public and instructed ++Muller not to respond. Memory lapse perhaps.” Here Pentin was referring to Cardinal Gerhard Müller – then-Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF). OnePeterFive has reached now out to Cardinal Müller’s own secretary, asking him for a confirmation of this new papal claim, but has not received a response as of this writing.

    Let us recapitulate the events leading up to the publication of the Dubia in 2016:

    First, on 19 September 2016, the four Dubia cardinals (together with two prelates who preferred to remain unknown and in the background) wrote a letter to Pope Francis which contained the five Dubia – questions of doubt – concerning his Post-Synodal Exhortation Amoris Laetitia. They waited for two months and did not receive any official response to their letter – neither from Pope Francis nor from the CDF, to whom they had also sent a copy.

    Then, on 14 November 2016, the four Dubia cardinals – Carlo Caffarra, Raymond Burke, Walter Brandmüller, and Joachim Meisner – made their letter to Pope Francis public, hoping thereby to foster a discourse about the matter of Amoris Laetitia. As Pentin had then reported:

    As the Pope decided not to respond to the dubia, the four signatories said they read “his sovereign decision as an invitation to continue the reflection and the discussion, calmly and with respect,” and therefore have decided to inform “the entire people of God about our initiative and offering all of the documentation.”

    In December of 2016, Cardinal Müller said in an interview that the CDF speaks “with the authority of the pope” and that it therefore could not “participate in the controversial dispute.” As Deacon Nick Donnelly commented at EWTN in response to this story, “Though Cardinal Müller doesn’t come out and say it, his interview with Kathpress strongly implies that Pope Francis has told him that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith must not reply to the four cardinals’ dubia on Amoris Laetitia.”

    Pentin’s tweet today appears to confirm this interpretation of the cardinal’s statements.

    The impetus is now on the Vatican to correct the pope’s statement. Failure to do so would damage the good name of the then-four Dubia cardinals – two of whom have since died – implicating them in a failure to follow correct ecclesial procedures. What has been clear since the Dubia were first issued was the caution with which the four approached the matter. Their uprightness, their moral character, their love for the Church and the Pope, all indicate that they would never have taken action outside the established ecclesial procedures for addressing such matters.

    OnePeterFive reached out to the Vatican Press Office for comment, but we have received no response at this time.
     
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  12. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    For Bishop Schneider, those who are in power in the Church – he calls them “the Church’s Nomenklatura” – are permeated with “the spirit of the world, with the naturalistic spirit, they lack the supernatural Faith.” They might have entered ecclesiastical offices, the prelate explains, and they might “have power over the small and the pure, and even try to suppress them”; they might also have “the power of the administration, money, reputation, media support, and public praise”; “But we have the Faith!” the bishop exclaims. “You have the power, but we have the Faith.”
    -Bishop Athanasius Schneider


    "May God console you! ... What saddens you ... is the fact that others have occupied the churches by violence, while during this time you are on the outside. It is a fact that they have the premises – but you have the Apostolic Faith. They can occupy our churches, but they are outside the true Faith. You remain outside the places of worship, but the Faith dwells within you. Let us consider: what is more important, the place or the Faith? The true Faith, obviously. Who has lost and who has won in the struggle – the one who keeps the premises or the one who keeps the Faith? True, the premises are good when the Apostolic Faith is preached there; they are holy if everything takes place there in a holy way ...

    "You are the ones who are happy; you who remain within the Church by your Faith, who hold firmly to the foundations of the Faith which has come down to you from Apostolic Tradition. And if an execrable jealousy has tried to shake it on a number of occasions, it has not succeeded. They are the ones who have broken away from it in the present crisis. No one, ever, will prevail against your Faith, beloved Brothers. And we believe that God will give us our churches back some day.

    "Thus, the more violently they try to occupy the places of worship, the more they separate themselves from the Church. They claim that they represent the Church; but in reality, they are the ones who are expelling themselves from it and going astray. Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ."

    -St. Athanasius

     
  13. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Brian, Thank you for posting this but I find this to be very sad. I will be praying for the Dubia cardinals and Pope Francis. I really do hope that the Vatican will correct the pope's statement very, very soon.
     
  14. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I feel the same way.
     
    Mary's child and Carol55 like this.
  15. Jarg

    Jarg Archangels

    Very strong words - I agree with them totally but at the same time we have no where to go without Peter. If Peter goes astray, we are in Gods hands as we can certainly not separate from Peter - we have (and that we includes bishops and cardinals) no authority to do so. We can only pray, speak when we can and wait. The gates of hell will not prevail against the Church and her pope, we must trust in God against all odds.
     
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  16. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    I’m not a fan of this website but I found a link to this on Twitter:

    http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a02z_007_SipeOpenLetter.html


    Open Letter of Richard Sipe to Benedict XVI

    Your Holiness, I Have the Evidence
    Card. McCarrick Is a Homosexual, Please Act


    Statement for Pope Benedict XVI about the Pattern of
    the Sexual Abuse Crisis in the United States
    Open Letter of Richard Sipe to Benedict XVI
    Statement for Pope Benedict XVI about the Pattern of
    the Sexual Abuse Crisis in the United States

    Your Holiness, I, Richard Sipe, approach you reluctantly to speak about the problem of sexual abuse by priests and bishops in the United States, but I am encouraged and prompted by the directive of Vatican II, Lumen Gentium, Chapter IV, No. 37. “By reason of knowledge, competence…the laity are empowered—indeed sometimes obliged—to manifest their opinion on those things that pertain to the good of the Church.” And also moved by your heartfelt demonstration of concern for victims on your recent visit to the United States I bring to your attention a dimension of the crisis not yet addressed. It is closer to the systemic center of the problem and one most difficult for you to address.

    [​IMG]
    Card. McCarrick, right, under the appearance of holiness...
    As the crisis of sexual abuse of our children and vulnerable adults by priests and bishops in the United States is unfolding, the dynamics of this dysfunction are becoming painfully clear.

    This sexual aberration is not generated from the bottom up - that is only from unsuitable candidates - but from the top down - that is from the sexual behaviors of superiors, even bishops and cardinals.

    The problem facing us in the American church is systemic. I will present Your Holiness with only a few examples:

    Bishop Thomas Lyons, now deceased, who was an Auxiliary in the Archdiocese of Washington D.C. groomed, seduced, and sexually abused a boy from the time he was seven years old until he was 17. When that boy grew into manhood he in turn abused his own child and young relatives. When I asked him about his actions he said to me, “I thought it was natural. Father (Lyons) told me a priest showed him this when he was growing up.” A pattern was perpetuated for at least four generations.

    Abbot John Eidenschink of St. John’s Abbey, Collegeville, Minnesota sexually abused some of his young monks during confession and spiritual direction. He admitted this behavior in regard to two of the monks I interviewed. They described the behavior in disturbingly graphic detail. Older monks that I interviewed told me that they knew that John’s Novice Master was inappropriately affectionate with him during his two years as a novice. More than a dozen of the monks of this monastery have been credibly accused of abuse of minors while Abbot Eidenschink was promoted to President of his Monastic Congregation, the American Cassinese.

    While I was Adjunct Professor at a Pontifical Seminary, St. Mary’s Baltimore (1972-1984) a number of seminarians came to me with concerns about the behavior of Theodore E. McCarrick, then bishop of Metuchen, New Jersey. It has been widely known for several decades that Bishop/Archbishop now Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick took seminarians and young priests to a shore home in New Jersey, sites in New York, and other places and slept with some of them. He established a coterie of young seminarians and priests that he encouraged to call him “Uncle Ted.” I have his correspondence where he referred to these men as being “cousins” with each other.

    [​IMG]
    'Uncle Ted' allegedly used different pretexts to attract seminarians and priests
    Catholic journalist Matt C. Abbott already featured the statements of two priests (2005) and one ex-priest (2006) about McCarrick. All three were "in the know" and aware of the Cardinal McCarrick’s activities in the same mode as I had heard at the seminary. None of these reporters, as far as Abbott knew, had sexual contact with the cardinal in the infamous sleepovers, but one had first hand reports from a seminarian/priest who did share a bed and received cards and letters from McCarrick. The modus operendi is similar to the documents and letters I have received from a priest who describes in detail McCarrick’s sexual advances and personal activity. At least one prominent journalist at the Boston Globe was aware of McCarrick from his investigation of another priest, but until now legal documentation has not been available. And even at this point the complete story cannot be published because priest reporters are afraid of reprisals.

    Your Holiness, you must seek out and listen to these stories, as I have from many priests about their seduction by highly placed clerics, and the dire consequences in their lives that does end with personal distress.

    I know the names of at least four priests who have had sexual encounters with Cardinal McCarrick. I have documents and letters that record the first hand testimony and eye witness accounts of McCarrick, then archbishop of Newark, New Jersey actually having sex with a priest, and at other times subjecting a priest to unwanted sexual advances.

    Your Holiness, you must seek out and listen to the stories, as I have from many priests about their seduction by highly placed clerics, and the dire consequences in their lives that does end in their victimization alone.

    Such behavior fosters confusion and makes celibacy problematic for seminarians and priests. This abuse paves the way for them to pass the tradition on — to have sex with each other and even with minors.

    The pattern and practice of priests in positions of responsibility for the training of men for the priesthood — rectors, confessors, spiritual directors, novice masters, and other clergy — who have sexual relations with seminarians and other priests is rampant in the Catholic Church in the United States. I have reviewed hundreds of documents that record just such behavior and interviewed scores of priests who have suffered from this activity. Priests, sexually active in the above manner have frequently been appointed by the Vatican to be ordained bishops or even created cardinals.

    I approach Your Holiness with due reverence, but with the same intensity that motivated Peter Damian to lay out before your predecessor, Pope Leo IX, a description of the condition of the clergy during his time. The problems he spoke of are similar and as great now in the United States as they were then in Rome. If Your Holiness requests I will submit to you personally documentation of that about which I have spoken.

    Your Holiness, I submit this to you with urgent concern for our Church, especially for the young and our clergy.

    Posted April 22, 2008


    [​IMG]
     
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  17. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Ugh
    :cry:
    Sadly, we probably know some of these priests.
     
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  18. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Brian,

    Thank you for posting this. I am not a fan of that website either but I recently posted two links to it on this thread which were related to Cardinal Dolan.

    I have often wondered if this sexual abuse in the Church is the root cause of what we currently see happening in the Church in relation to the Vatican's inability to clearly defend the Truth. I have gone so far as to wonder if some of what we see occurring in this regard is a matter of revenge. I really believe that it could be revenge in some cases and in other cases some clergy may believe that their perversions are natural as this letter confirms from at least one clergyman. :eek::cry::mad:
     
  19. AED

    AED Powers

    And the response....crickets. This corruption runs wide and deep. I have no words!
     
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  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    That thought crossed my mind this morning, that the wave of filth and the great Apostasy are related, more likely symbiotic. Both the filth and the spiritual laxity seemed to take off in the 50’s, I suspect. I remember being shocked recently to find out about Bishop Lyons. One of the members of my Ladies of Charity group apparently knew him from childhood fairly well. He was in DC as an auxiliary Bishop.
    Brian, the Supreme Court in Pennsylvania has sealed the grand jury records detailing abuse in 6 out of 8 dioceses In Pennsylvania
     
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